So how come nobody asked my Kaczyn family for feathers???
By the way, the siedzien? in the family supplied tar too!!!
smile your on candid herbarz...
edward...
For those of us who like to try to find possible origins and affiliations of
Polish arms, I'd recommend consulting Ottfried Neubecker and Wilhelm
Rentzmann's Wappen Bilder Lexikon [Dictionary of Heraldic Charges], Munich,
1974.
This reference, unfortunately, is compilation of civic, rather than
personal, arms, but it is large and charges are arranged lucidly by
category. A glance through this reference will demonstrate that even
tamga-form heraldic charges can be found in use in numerous European
locatio
Hello,
Interesting enough the Odrowaz Coat of Arms also has three peacock feathers.
Do you know if this has any association, or is it just that Peacock feathers
were popular?
Inquiring minds would like to know. :-)
Margaret Odrowaz-Sypniewski, B.F.A., Clan Malcolm, PGSA, PGSM.
The Sypniewski Family-Table of ContentsAuch 2000's Scottish Pages
In a message dated 8/5/0
> goodluck charms <
Or, David, perhaps tamgas could be traffic signs. At the entrance to
our parking lot we have painted on the pavement the Strzala charge and
at the exit a variant of it. All over Europe the Kotwicz arms are
posted at the entrances of streets to which entry is barred.
Greetings:
Observing the discussion of Tatar, and possible Tatar names, I thought it not
inappropriate to submit this inquiry: One of my great-great grandfathers was
a Kudzbajski - I have been unable to concoct any reasonable Slavic etymon but
there are names in various Turkic dialects which have a striking similiarity
(e.g. , Modern Turkish Kudu:sbey [: = umlaut] meaning something like
"Gentleman of Jerusalem", in some [can't find references] this is manifested
"Ku:dsbey". I would appreciate any c
I was able to locate a picture of the 1309 seal of Andreas Zaremba, bishop
of Poznan, table XXXV, No. 357 in Gumowski's Handbuch der Polnischen
Siegelkunde, 1966. Kulikowski really ought to be footnoting where these
things can be found. Which Bienak do you suppose is his source, 1973 or
1978?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stevens"
To: "David Zincavage" ;
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: The progenitor of the Z
Can't remember who and what name it was,
but there was a discussion here about a mysterious change of Y->IJ.
This of course is a typical Dutch matter, there the pronunciation of Y and
IJ are identical (a bit like 'i' in ice in English).
So may be the person had Dutch contacts, someone misunderstanding the Polish
"y" and miswriting it into 'ij', the modern Dutch way.
Best regards
Freiherr von Recum.
> Panie Dawidzie is reserved for addressing lower-ranked.. <
Although Mr. Minakowski has lived all of his life in the cultural center
of Poland, and although I very highly value his insightful comments,
(which are needed now more than ever), I must disagree on this point.
It is true that it is considered impolite to address someone by his/her
surname, as for example "Szanowny Panie Zienkiewiczu!" As one who finds
it difficult to remember surnames, I find this to be a brilliant
cultural achievement on the p
Maggie,
>> Yes Peacocks do thrive in the same places as chickens and
>> peasants....they are all related you know.
Are you sure chickens and peacocks are related to peasants? Some of my
relatives were peasants! ;) Did my other relatives that were of
Lithuanian Nobility keep their chickens and peasants in the same place? ;)
Ed
--
---------------------------------------------------
Edward Justin Modestino, M.Phil.
Graduate Research Assistant
Cognitive Neurophysiology Laboratory
Center for Complex Syste
> I didn't say: it is impolite <
I thought we were talking about the context of an Internet discussion
list. Of course in a classroom, doctor's office, television interview,
etc., it's polite to refer to someone by his/her professional title,
unless the titled person requests otherwise. In fact, even on an
Internet list, if someone requests to be called by his or her title, I
would certainly oblige even if someone insisted on, for example, "Wasza
Hrabiowska Mosc!" At the dinner table, and in informal se
Hello Leon,
Thank you for your research. Klaus Liwowski located barons von Speidel in
the German GOTHA
and in Kneschkes Adels-Lexikon.
It is interesting how a word meaning "carpenter's wedge" became a name of a
baronial family?
Best wishes,
Marek Lesniewski-Laas
At 02:28 PM 8/4/2003 -0400, Leon Stevens wrote:
> > without the 'von' <
>
>Siebmacher lists three armigerous "Burger" (bourgeois or townsman)
>Speidel families in Germany proper, but none in the former so-called
>"Grand Duchy of Poznan."
> taxes. So from the economic point of view, many noble families went
bankrupt
> during these three years and simply had no money to reapply.
And maybe this is why people tried to confirm their nobility by any means.
There are plenty of false genealogies, where people were not able to
correctly identify their, e.g. greatgrandparents. Apparently, people
didn't care of their genealogy, they were just interested in proving their
nobility.
MJM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elena-Tereza Daschevici"
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 1:45 PM
Subject: A request
>
> My name is Elena-Tereza Daschevici and i am from Romania. I am doing some
researches on the Daszkiewicz family and i have found some very interesting
information where i need your help.
>
> I have found my family to belong to several coat of arms, two of them
being somehow related. Could you please tell me what is th
I have not measured the distances involved in miles, but if you include Lyda
and Nowogrodek (both now in Belarus), Vilnius and Kaunas (Central and
Northwest Lithuania), and Podlasie (conceded to Poland by Sigismund Augustus
before the 1569 Union of Lublin), you've got a territorial expanse a good
deal larger than the current Lithuanian state.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stevens"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: Tartars
> It would be strange - Cottbus is in Polish "Chociebuz", while Kottwitz is
> rather Kotwicz or Kotficz.
Meanwhile I have read Friderico Lucae, Schlesiens curieuse
Denckwuerdigkeiten, Franckfurt 1689, V.4. p.1811, new published by
Zedler.
He writes: "The family Kottwitz owned in the Lower-Lusatia around
Cottbuss the estates: Neuhausen, Brusinchen, Torbendorff, Klein-Dobbern.
[...] Otto v. Kottwitz was marshal by count Friedrich in Meissen around
1229."
The map "Tabula geographica sive mappa Silesiae" fro
The town of Chernigov always was, and still is, in Ukraine.
The nobles like Chernigov(ski) (Czernichowski, Tchenikhovsky) have not been recorded in the Byelowrussian gubernias of Grodno, Minsk, Mohylew, Witebsk and Smolensk at all.
One Czerniechowski (Tchernekhovsky) family was positively revised as the nobles by the Heroldia in Podolyia on Apr. 24, 1841, as well as another one in Volhynia (Apr. 14, 1842). Another alike families were : one Czernikow family (Chernikov, Tchernikov) in the Gubernia of Kiev
Thank you for that a short lesson of courtesy and formal ways of addressing
unknown people, Panie Miniak.
I addressed Pan David a little less formal, which is highly permitted in
Polish culture. Especially when addressed person is "known" for the addresser. It
does not have anything to do with lower or higher-ranked people.
Ed.
>
> > Thank you, Panie Dawidzie.
>
> By the way, you wished to be kind, didn't you? In Polish, appellation like
> "Panie Dawidzie" is reserved for addressing lower-ranked peopl
its very good and very well done but right now its only volume I
HERBARZ-L-request@rootsweb.com on 2003-08-30 06:21:09
To: HERBARZ-L@rootsweb.com
cc:
Subject: Boniecki on CD
Dear listers!
I have found on internet
http://www.przodkowie.republika.pl/
that it is possible to buy Herbarz Polski on a CD.
has anyone of you done it? Are there really all the
volumes at one CD?
Still looking for information about
De Jawora Balowicz
Jaworski Zdzislaw Konstanty - born in Sambor
Christel / Finland
Ya
"Henryk and Jan Pvchner are said to have moved from Austria to Lusatia
around 1281. There they built Castle Kotwicz which they lost as a result of
their hostilities against the margrave of that land. They then moved to
Silesia where they also called themselves Kotwicz. One of Jan's sons
established himself in the district of Wschowo (Poznan). "
This account treats Lusatia as different from Silesia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marek Jerzy Minakowski"
To:
Lithuania and Poland formed a political union in 1386, when the Lithuanian
Grand Duke Jogailo married the twelve year old heir to the Polish throne,
Jadwiga (actually called "King," not Queen, despite her sex). Lithuania and
Poland defeated the Teutonic Order at the battle of Grunwald in 1410.
Apparently in the aftermath of this great victory, in which Polish and
Lithuanian knights fought side by side, a number of prominent Polish
noblemen and officers of state adopted important Lithuanian noblemen and
th
additional to these works :
http://dworki.3k.pl/album.php
I just came back from a voyage through Pommerania. In nearly each village I
found a "dwsr", some completely restaurated (mostly bought by the new rich
Warszawa generation), others in rather original condition, others in ruin
state.
I learned visually that 'dwsr' is a concept, and not a building. And that a
dwsr can vary from dworek to castle.
Some pictures will be added to our website, so that you can see them
yourselves . I'll inform you in time
> treats Lusatia as different from Silesia <
Lusatia IS different from Silesia. The Sorbs and the proto-Polish
Slezanie were two adjacent Slavic tribes but with different histories
and linguistic developments. The Sorbs were vanquished by the Germans
and have remained subject to them for over a millennium and a half. For
more information on Lusatia, type the word "Sorbian" in the Google
search box.
> larger than the Lithuanian state <
When I say "Lithuania" in a historical context, I mean the Grand Duchy.
Today, someone in a single automobile could deliver a Tatar newspaper to
local distribution centers throughout the entire Tatar territory in one
day. When I was in college I worked for a small newspaper, and that's
exactly how we distributed it over most of eastern Ohio, i.e. in one car
in one day.
> What would they do in the city <
The enormous growth of cities in the late 18th and 19th centuries was
due directly to the massive influx of the rural populace into the
cities. This is discussed in the article I sent you in regard to the
rapid growth of the Jewish quarter in Warsaw. People practiced all
manner of trades or engaged in menial labor in the hopes of learning
trades. However cities were always populated to a great degree by
refugees from the countryside. Homeless rural people didn't just m