Rootsweb.com RSS Feed for CLAN-DONALD

Re: [CLAN-DONALD] CLAN-DONALD Digest, Vol 1, Issue 1/Handfasting - The Olde Tradition Resurges

confido@ix.netcom.com — 2006-12-03T15:34:22-06:00

-----Original Message-----
>From: Beaches West
>Sent: Dec 3, 2006 12:55 PM
>To: clan-donald@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [CLAN-DONALD] CLAN-DONALD Digest, Vol 1, Issue 1
>
>Question on this topic... Were not children of a "hand-fast" marriage
>recognized as legal heirs? I remember reading in the "big book" of the
>MacDonalds that all children born under those circumstances were legal
>heirs and that hand-fast marriages were of a year's length and were
>perfectly acceptable. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe the new
>Chief's ancestor was born under these circumstances.... ???
>
>Regards,
>Marilyn A. Willette, CBM, WPS

Hello Marrilyn:

In answer to your question, I have pasted in my article on handfasting that has been published in several clan and a genealogical society quarterlies. As to how it may or may not apply to the Ancestor of the legally named current Chief, only historians may know. There was no mention of handfasting in the article. Not all children who were born out of wedlock were born within hand fastings. Nor did the term "illigitimate" carry the social stigma that it does today. It merely meant that one could not inherit. A child born out of wedlock could be "legitimized" by the father claiming them, declaring them a legal heir and yet still not being married to the child's mother.

Yours Aye,

Lauren M. Boyd, FSA Scot
*******************************************************************************

Handfasting - The Olde Tradition Resurges

Over the years you may have read Ann Landers� column. She had opined that it might be preferable for young couples to have renewable marriage contracts that lasted 2 or five years rather than �til death us do part.� This was not an original idea.

Going back to the Ancient times, Celtic and other, there was a necessity to formalize the relationship between a man and a woman, especially if there were children expected to come of the relationship. Women stood on equal ground with men. However, once they were pregnant or bore children it became difficult or impossible for them to fight in battle or go on the hunt. The community demanded that the man provide for the woman in these circumstances, lest the community suffer the loss of a worker and warrior, as well as diminished the share of all to support them. Marriage ceremonies were not as formal as they are today. Some were simple declarations that they were indeed now married. Others became married upon the pregnancy of the woman. In some cultures the marriage was intended to last 20 years. This would see the children to maturity. Seemingly this is where the 25 year mortgage got its timing!

Going forward to Medieval time, there were betrothal ceremonies, in which a handfasting was done. Binding a couple for a year, or a year and a day. If they chose to remain together, they would then be married. If they decided that they would move on, they would be free to marry others. If a child was born during this year or a pregnancy occurred, they were considered to have been married and the child was legitimate in birth.

Unlike today�s betrothal and engagements, the couple lived as husband and wife for the year and a day. It was a trial period to accustom themselves to marriage. To practice the art of being married.

Interestingly, the period of a year and a day comes from Scottish inheritance law. A spouse could not inherit from the other unless they were married more than one year. Surprisingly, I discovered that an American widow will obtain no benefits from Social Security unless the couple was married more than one year.

In my own marriage in an Episcopal church, the priest bound our right hands together, a continued symbol from ancient times. It served to remind us that although we were individuals, we were pledging to join our lives together in one bond.

Handfasting ceremonies are again becoming popular among the young folk that attend Scottish Games and Celtic Gatherings. Drawing upon the old ways, there are new rituals created by individuals to declare their love for each other and bind their two lives into one. The use of ribbons and vines tied loosely or if to be permanent, with a knot, exchanging vows in the presence of witnesses. Many of them return to be married the following year.

~Lauren Boyd
(all copyrights reserved 2005 -- not for reprint or redistribution without written permission from the author)
***********************************************************************************

Re: [CLAN-DONALD] CLAN-DONALD Digest, Vol 1, Issue 1

2006-12-03T10:55:06-06:00

Question on this topic... Were not children of a "hand-fast" marriage
recognized as legal heirs? I remember reading in the "big book" of the
MacDonalds that all children born under those circumstances were legal
heirs and that hand-fast marriages were of a year's length and were
perfectly acceptable. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe the new
Chief's ancestor was born under these circumstances.... ???

Regards,
Marilyn A. Willette, CBM, WPS

-----Original Message-----
From: clan-donald-bounces@rootsweb.com
[mailto:clan-donald-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of
clan-donald-request@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:06 AM
To: clan-donald@rootsweb.com
Subject: CLAN-DONALD Digest, Vol 1, Issue 1

Today's Topics:

1. Re: [Clan DONALD] Re: Ancestors postings: Clan at war over
man who would be chief (George)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:06:34 -0600
From: "George"
Subject: Re: [CLAN-DONALD] [Clan DONALD] Re: Ancestors postings: Clan
at war over man who would be chief
To:
Cc: George
Message-ID: <000701c70f32$8542afb0$2fbc5e18@YOURZE8CXVR8TT>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Happy Bird Day.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: [Clan DONALD] Re: Ancestors postings: Clan at war over man who
would be chief

> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Classification: Query
>
> Message Board URL:
>
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/WCB.2ACEAE/3.1
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> Clan at war over man who would be chief
> FRANK URQUHART
>
> THEY were once one of the fiercest clans in Scotland - proud Highland
> warriors who were the first to rally to the support of Prince Charles
> Edward Stuart when he raised his standard at Glenfinnan in 1745.
>
> Now the MacDonalds of Keppoch are engaged in a new battle over who has

> the
> right to be installed as their next chief.
>
> The bitter clan uprising is threatening plans by an Edinburgh
> pensioner,
> now officially recognised as Chief of the MacDonalds of Keppoch, to be

> formally installed as the first new clan head for almost two centuries
in
> a ceremony in the heart of the clan's ancestral homeland in Lochaber.
>
> Ranald MacDonald, 75, a retired hearing aid practitioner, is due to be
> officially inaugurated as clan chief in a ceremony in Fort William
next
> month.
>
> The ceremony will mark the end of a long legal fight to secure the
> title,
> which has been fought out in Scotland's court of heraldry and finally
in
> the Court of Session in Edinburgh.
>
> But the fiery cross has already been lit in the lands of the
> MacDonalds of
> Keppoch, with claims by fellow clansmen that the pensioner has no
right to
> the title because he comes from an illegitimate side of the family.
>
> They maintain one of his ancestors, Alexander, was born in 1832 out of
> wedlock. And they are warning the new chief that there will be no
welcome
> for him in their historic heartland.
>
> Mr MacDonald won his lengthy legal battle to be recognised as the 22nd
> chief of the MacDonalds of Keppoch in a ruling by judges at the Court
of
> Session two years ago. The title had lain dormant for 156 years
because
> the 21st chief died without male heirs in 1848.
>
> His formal inauguration is due to be held on 13 September, when the
> new
> chief's Letters Patent and Ensigns Armorial will be presented by Sir
> Crispin Agnew of Lochnaw, QC, Rothesay Herald of the Lyon Court.
>
> But Rory MacDonald, a fellow kinsman and top clan historian, yesterday
> challenged Mr MacDonald's right to the title.
>
> Rory MacDonald, who lives in Spean Bridge, said: "He might be
> recognised
> as chief, but I don't think his right to the title will be recognised
> here. My view is that his branch of the family were not legitimate and

> that he therefore is not entitled to the chieftainship. It could be
argued
> his family may possibly come from the chiefly line, but if he is not
> legitimate it doesn't mean he has a claim.
>
> "I think people with any knowledge of the clan history are upset. He
> has
> been a bit of a thorn in our flesh for a long time, but we didn't
think
> that anyone would take him seriously."
>
> The history of the MacDonalds of Keppoch is as colourful as any in
> Scotland. The clan's 17th chief, Alexander, was among the thousands of

> Jacobites who were slaughtered by the Duke of Cumberland's force on
the
> battlefield at Culloden in 1746.
>
> A century earlier another chief of the clan, also known as Alexander
> MacDonald, and his younger brother Ranald were stabbed to death by
rivals
> in a clan feud. Their murderers were hunted down and decapitated.
>
> At his home in Edinburgh's Lauriston Place, Mr MacDonald dismissed the
> illegitimacy claims as "codswallop".
>
> "My claim comes from the legitimate line - without question. My claim
> to
> the title is irrefutable, they are trying to continue to oppose
something
> that is unopposable. And if they wish to do something about it they
have
> to produce the evidence and go to court.
>
> "I have been officially chief of the clan from the day I won that
> court
> action in January 2004. But next month's ceremony means that the world

> will know that the Keppoch clan are back in the homeland where they
have
> been absent for 158 years."
>
> quoted from: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1160202006
>
>
> ==============================
> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find

> marriage announcements and more. Learn more:
> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx
>
>

------------------------------

To contact the CLAN-DONALD list administrator, send an email to
CLAN-DONALD-admin@rootsweb.com.

To post a message to the CLAN-DONALD mailing list, send an email to
CLAN-DONALD@rootsweb.com.

__________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLAN-DONALD-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text.

End of CLAN-DONALD Digest, Vol 1, Issue 1
*****************************************

Re: [CLAN-DONALD] web master attention

SNIPES7310@aol.com — 2006-12-02T14:56:38-06:00

Sorry, I just sent a letter to my cousin George ( from a letter he emailed me
) and noticed that it went to rootsweb instead of George. Hope you can
intercept this and it does not get posted. Thanks, Sharon

Re: [CLAN-DONALD] [Clan DONALD] Re: Ancestors postings: Clan at war over man ...

SNIPES7310@aol.com — 2006-12-02T14:49:54-06:00

Hello Cousin George and Pat,
That is very interesting about the Donald Clan isn't it ? I read an article
about that situation
approx. a year ago. It seems like it was in the courts at the time. It seems
like he must be legally able to be the clan chief, if the courts found that he
was a descendent. Have you heard/read about the DNA tests that the families
are now doing ? It proves the ancestors.
Very interesting. Many of the Surname organizations are doing these tests.
Hear on the news that you guys got some snow. The weather here has still been
pretty good. Was in the low 30's this morning. Now it's 26 out. Has gotten
colder.
We went to a funeral this morning for a very good friend of ours. She is only
64 years old.
Was talking on the phone, just hung up and fell to the floor. They don't know
what caused her death. It is quite a shock for everyone. But, it was windy
and very cold at the cemetery.
Have the Christmas tree up and decorated. Have most of the gifts bought and
wrapped.
Putting the tree up and decorating it, takes me a whole day. I guess I must
move slower.
Bill was up here for a few weeks. I talked to him yesterday on the phone. He
said Jack and Rita were leaving last night to take him back down to Texas. He
said he would let me know when he got home. I haven't heard from him yet. If I
don't, I'll call him.
Have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS !! Love, Sharon

Re: [CLAN-DONALD] [Clan DONALD] Re: Ancestors postings: Clan at war over man who would be chief

2006-11-23T12:06:34-06:00

Happy Bird Day.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: [Clan DONALD] Re: Ancestors postings: Clan at war over man who
would be chief

> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Classification: Query
>
> Message Board URL:
>
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/WCB.2ACEAE/3.1
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> Clan at war over man who would be chief
> FRANK URQUHART
>
> THEY were once one of the fiercest clans in Scotland - proud Highland
> warriors who were the first to rally to the support of Prince Charles
> Edward Stuart when he raised his standard at Glenfinnan in 1745.
>
> Now the MacDonalds of Keppoch are engaged in a new battle over who has the
> right to be installed as their next chief.
>
> The bitter clan uprising is threatening plans by an Edinburgh pensioner,
> now officially recognised as Chief of the MacDonalds of Keppoch, to be
> formally installed as the first new clan head for almost two centuries in
> a ceremony in the heart of the clan's ancestral homeland in Lochaber.
>
> Ranald MacDonald, 75, a retired hearing aid practitioner, is due to be
> officially inaugurated as clan chief in a ceremony in Fort William next
> month.
>
> The ceremony will mark the end of a long legal fight to secure the title,
> which has been fought out in Scotland's court of heraldry and finally in
> the Court of Session in Edinburgh.
>
> But the fiery cross has already been lit in the lands of the MacDonalds of
> Keppoch, with claims by fellow clansmen that the pensioner has no right to
> the title because he comes from an illegitimate side of the family.
>
> They maintain one of his ancestors, Alexander, was born in 1832 out of
> wedlock. And they are warning the new chief that there will be no welcome
> for him in their historic heartland.
>
> Mr MacDonald won his lengthy legal battle to be recognised as the 22nd
> chief of the MacDonalds of Keppoch in a ruling by judges at the Court of
> Session two years ago. The title had lain dormant for 156 years because
> the 21st chief died without male heirs in 1848.
>
> His formal inauguration is due to be held on 13 September, when the new
> chief's Letters Patent and Ensigns Armorial will be presented by Sir
> Crispin Agnew of Lochnaw, QC, Rothesay Herald of the Lyon Court.
>
> But Rory MacDonald, a fellow kinsman and top clan historian, yesterday
> challenged Mr MacDonald's right to the title.
>
> Rory MacDonald, who lives in Spean Bridge, said: "He might be recognised
> as chief, but I don't think his right to the title will be recognised
> here. My view is that his branch of the family were not legitimate and
> that he therefore is not entitled to the chieftainship. It could be argued
> his family may possibly come from the chiefly line, but if he is not
> legitimate it doesn't mean he has a claim.
>
> "I think people with any knowledge of the clan history are upset. He has
> been a bit of a thorn in our flesh for a long time, but we didn't think
> that anyone would take him seriously."
>
> The history of the MacDonalds of Keppoch is as colourful as any in
> Scotland. The clan's 17th chief, Alexander, was among the thousands of
> Jacobites who were slaughtered by the Duke of Cumberland's force on the
> battlefield at Culloden in 1746.
>
> A century earlier another chief of the clan, also known as Alexander
> MacDonald, and his younger brother Ranald were stabbed to death by rivals
> in a clan feud. Their murderers were hunted down and decapitated.
>
> At his home in Edinburgh's Lauriston Place, Mr MacDonald dismissed the
> illegitimacy claims as "codswallop".
>
> "My claim comes from the legitimate line - without question. My claim to
> the title is irrefutable, they are trying to continue to oppose something
> that is unopposable. And if they wish to do something about it they have
> to produce the evidence and go to court.
>
> "I have been officially chief of the clan from the day I won that court
> action in January 2004. But next month's ceremony means that the world
> will know that the Keppoch clan are back in the homeland where they have
> been absent for 158 years."
>
> quoted from: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1160202006
>
>
> ==============================
> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find
> marriage announcements and more. Learn more:
> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx
>
>

MacDonald's of Urquhart & Glenmoriston

2006-08-11T20:22:41-06:00

MacDonald's of Urquhart & Glenmoriston

If anyone has any known ties to this particular Mac/McDonald family, I would
be interested in exchanging
information

I recently returned from a week long visit to Drumnadrochit, the village my
MacDonald family departed from in Sept 1775

One of the purposes of my trip was to try and find some written record
explaining my family's historical tradition that my 7G-GF was the
grandfather Ewan mentioned in the books "Clan Donald" and "Slaughter under
Trust" who escaped from Glencoe carrying his grandson after the father had
been killed.

His great grandson was my GGGG-GF John MacDonald (Iain MacEoghainn Oig) who
left from Drumnadrochit with his family of 10 and sailed on the Ship Glasgow
from Fort William in Sept 1775 bound for Upstate NY, They eventually settled
in Pictou County Nova Scotia along the East River in what is today
Bridgeville

In both of these books by Donald MacDonald, Mr. MacDonald makes the same
word-for-word reference (see attachment) to a grandfather named Ewan who
resettled in Glen Urquhart and whose descendents still live in Canada today.
I can show positive descent to this family with a paperwork trail to John
MacDonald (*Iain MacEoghainn Oig), b. abt 1720 in Glen Urquhart INV,
(*though recent data suggests the original Gaelic Patrynomic in 1700 was
"McEvanog")

Regards,

Ben MacDonald
Glendale, Arizona

Re: Ancestors postings: Clan at war over man who would be chief

confido@ix.netcom.com — 2006-08-10T18:09:50-06:00

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.

Classification: Query

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/WCB.2ACEAE/3.1

Message Board Post:

Clan at war over man who would be chief
FRANK URQUHART

THEY were once one of the fiercest clans in Scotland - proud Highland warriors who were the first to rally to the support of Prince Charles Edward Stuart when he raised his standard at Glenfinnan in 1745.

Now the MacDonalds of Keppoch are engaged in a new battle over who has the right to be installed as their next chief.

The bitter clan uprising is threatening plans by an Edinburgh pensioner, now officially recognised as Chief of the MacDonalds of Keppoch, to be formally installed as the first new clan head for almost two centuries in a ceremony in the heart of the clan's ancestral homeland in Lochaber.

Ranald MacDonald, 75, a retired hearing aid practitioner, is due to be officially inaugurated as clan chief in a ceremony in Fort William next month.

The ceremony will mark the end of a long legal fight to secure the title, which has been fought out in Scotland's court of heraldry and finally in the Court of Session in Edinburgh.

But the fiery cross has already been lit in the lands of the MacDonalds of Keppoch, with claims by fellow clansmen that the pensioner has no right to the title because he comes from an illegitimate side of the family.

They maintain one of his ancestors, Alexander, was born in 1832 out of wedlock. And they are warning the new chief that there will be no welcome for him in their historic heartland.

Mr MacDonald won his lengthy legal battle to be recognised as the 22nd chief of the MacDonalds of Keppoch in a ruling by judges at the Court of Session two years ago. The title had lain dormant for 156 years because the 21st chief died without male heirs in 1848.

His formal inauguration is due to be held on 13 September, when the new chief's Letters Patent and Ensigns Armorial will be presented by Sir Crispin Agnew of Lochnaw, QC, Rothesay Herald of the Lyon Court.

But Rory MacDonald, a fellow kinsman and top clan historian, yesterday challenged Mr MacDonald's right to the title.

Rory MacDonald, who lives in Spean Bridge, said: "He might be recognised as chief, but I don't think his right to the title will be recognised here. My view is that his branch of the family were not legitimate and that he therefore is not entitled to the chieftainship. It could be argued his family may possibly come from the chiefly line, but if he is not legitimate it doesn't mean he has a claim.

"I think people with any knowledge of the clan history are upset. He has been a bit of a thorn in our flesh for a long time, but we didn't think that anyone would take him seriously."

The history of the MacDonalds of Keppoch is as colourful as any in Scotland. The clan's 17th chief, Alexander, was among the thousands of Jacobites who were slaughtered by the Duke of Cumberland's force on the battlefield at Culloden in 1746.

A century earlier another chief of the clan, also known as Alexander MacDonald, and his younger brother Ranald were stabbed to death by rivals in a clan feud. Their murderers were hunted down and decapitated.

At his home in Edinburgh's Lauriston Place, Mr MacDonald dismissed the illegitimacy claims as "codswallop".

"My claim comes from the legitimate line - without question. My claim to the title is irrefutable, they are trying to continue to oppose something that is unopposable. And if they wish to do something about it they have to produce the evidence and go to court.

"I have been officially chief of the clan from the day I won that court action in January 2004. But next month's ceremony means that the world will know that the Keppoch clan are back in the homeland where they have been absent for 158 years."

quoted from: http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1160202006

Scottish Information Society request and information

confido@ix.netcom.com — 2006-03-22T09:24:46-06:00

Dear Clan Representatives:

The Scottish Information Society (SIS), formed 1987, is comprised of and exists
in support of those who volunteer their time at the clan tents, working events at
various venues. One member delegate from each Clan, House or Scottish Society is
invited to join to represent their officially recognized clan/society organization.

We are in the process of revamping our web site http://www.scottishinfo.org It
is currently off line, however, it is our hope to have it back up and functional
before the end of April. We hope to include many helpful elements for the public
to view. Currently one of the major projects in process is a comprehensive games
listing for all 50 US states. In future, we hope to be able to add an International
games listing.

I would appreciate it if you would email me directly at confido@ix.netcom.com with:

the most current contact information for your Clan, especially:

the name of your Chief

the names and contact information for those that convene your tents or are area
commissioners

the name and contact information for your genealogist(s)

the name and contact information for your clan historian(s)

the name and contact information for your editor(s)

the name of your clan newsletter and frequency of publication

the URL/information re your clan's official discussion group... is it this list
at Rootsweb? or is it different?

the name and contact information for whoever may be in charge of your DNA project

the URL for your clan's OFFICIALLY sanctioned website -- sorry no personal or non-sanctioned
sites can be linked

Additonally, SIS, will have a tent at the upcoming Sacramento Valley (California)
Caledonia Club Games, in Woodland, California, at the end of April. If you will
send some information regarding your clan, we will be pleased to have it on hand,
whether or not your representative is able to attend and host a tent at the event.

We would also appreciate your mailing a copy or copies of your newsletter, in order
that we may share with the public part of what your clan has to offer to its members.

If you manage, sponsor or sanction DNA projects for your clan, please mail information
regarding the project(s) and we will make it available at the tent for those interested.

Also, for those of you interested, there is a Scot DNA project that all Scots and
Scot Clans are welcome to join or share DNA results with, no matter which service
you used. John Hansen is the Project Manager. You will find more information about
this project at http://www.scottishdna.net and also in the Scot-DNA@rootsweb.com
list archives. Details re that list will be found here: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/SCOT-DNA.html

Write me off list and I will provide the postal mailing addresss for receipt of
your printed materials.

Thank you. And thanks to all of your volunteers which give so generously and unselfishly
of their time to share with and educate the public about your Clan's history and
that of Scotland. It is they who keep the tradtions alive.

Suas Alba!

Yours Aye,

Lauren M. Boyd, FSA Scot
President
Scottish Information Society
http://www.scottishinfo.org

delegate representative: House of Boyd Society, Inc. [commonly called "Clan
Boyd"]
title: International President
web site: http://www.clanboyd.ORG
clan email address: president@clanboyd.ORG
.........................................................

NB. I add this bit of information due to the responses I received
in my first round of posting:

This message is not misdirected, but rather has been sent to
all the clan lists at Rootsweb in attempt to most expediently
reach those involved with and representing their Scottish clan
in some official capacity. You have received it as you are
subscribed to at least one of them.

Please understand that due to the shear magnitude of the number
of recipients, I cannot respond to friendly notes that include
genealogical information and queries that may be triggered by
my post. Please do post to the list and also consider joining
and becoming active in your Scottish clan's organization.