RootsWeb: ALT-GENEALOGY-L ALT-GENEALOGY-D Digest V97 #56

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Subject: ALT-GENEALOGY-D Digest V97 #56

------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain ALT-GENEALOGY-D DigestVolume 97 : Issue 56 Today's Topics: #1 CALL James; IN, USA; 1865 [Evelyn McDonner <] #2 Re: GAULT, Henry, New Brunswick, C [ (Noelellen)] #3 Charles James WALKER [] #4 Re: The Fall and Rise of Reginald [ (Noelellen)] #5 Re: St. John's Cemetery, NY [ (Tuffsearch)] #6 Henry W. WARREN [] #7 Rahestraw?? ["Mike Wheelock" <>] #8 Re: bad things about FTM [Carl Cason <] #9 New Webpage [howard or jeff <] #10 finding the baldauf family [Steve Brown <>] #11 Russian spy Rudolph Ivanovich Abel [] #12 Surviving The Millenium [Angela Meade <>] #13 DESPERATELY SEEKING DAWTERS [Diane Jarvie <..] #14 Re: Newbie roadblock [Woody Burkey <>] #15 BigJohn10 LQQking For A Wife! Are [BigJohn10<>] #16 Daniel Allen 1781 - 1840 [Jock Gill <] #17 Bishop, Filbert, Adams genealogy [] #18 Help!! ["Shelley Brideaux" <>] #19 Re: FTM vs. PAF 3.0 and the 80% ma [] #20 Seiler [] #21 Re: FTM vs. PAF 3.0 and the 80% ma [Ed Eide <>] #22 Re: Help!! [ (K.B. Johnsto] #23 Re: ALBANY,NY ARCHIVES QUESTION [ (Mfernest)] #24 Re: Princess Diana's geneology [ (BAYOU JAC)] #25 Re: DEATH OF PRINCESS DIANA [ (BAYOU JAC)] #26 Re: Princess Diana's geneology [Jim Roache <>] #27 Re: Princess Diana's geneology [Jim Roache <>] #28 Mexican War - Texas Mounted Volunt ["J. Dutch Revenboer" <] #29 Re: genealogy software [ (Eric Augustei] #30 Re: ALBANY,NY ARCHIVES QUESTION [ (Charles Wood)] #31 Alice Marvin/Joseph Watts [Richard Lonsbury <>] #32 Re: DESPERATELY SEEKING DAWTERS [ (KDAD40)] #33 genforum [ (Charles)] ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #1 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 03:23:17 GMT From: Evelyn McDonner <> To: Message-ID: <5uo0k5$> Subject: CALL James; IN, USA; 1865 We are currently searching for information on the following individual: James A Call married to Elizabeth Huffstutter marriage date 9/13/1865 Salem, Washington Co, Indiana Any assistance in finding date of birth, death, and parents names is appreciated. (James was possibly born in Bourbon Co, KY) Evie McDonner http://www.netcom.com/~pc-pals ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #2 Date: 5 Sep 1997 04:36:43 GMT From: (Noelellen) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: GAULT, Henry, New Brunswick, CAN c. 1830 I knew a wonderfully sweet old man named Samuel Gault about 35 years ago. He was about 80 then. He was as Scottish as haggis. Happy Hunting, Noel Marcy Work in progress: http://members.aol.com/noelellen/johnson.html ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #3 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:07:13 GMT From: To: Message-ID: <5uo3d0$> Subject: Charles James WALKER Looking for descendants or information on a Charles James WALKER, born 22 August 1894 in Forest River, ND. Parents H.B. Walker and Elma McGregor. Believe Charles James Walker died Jan 1970 in Dutton area of Montana. Any info please contact ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #4 Date: 5 Sep 1997 05:30:14 GMT From: (Noelellen) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin Please do not forget Rising Damp! Loved that man. cheers, Noel Beddow Marcy Work in progress: http://members.aol.com/noelellen/johnson.html ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #5 Date: 5 Sep 1997 05:30:29 GMT From: (Tuffsearch) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: St. John's Cemetery, NY Hi Nancy, According to a receipt I have for grave care at St. John's (1946), the address is written as: St. John's Cemetery Metropolitan Avenue and Dry Harbor Road Middle Village LI, NY MAIN OFFICE 75 Greene Avenue (cor. of Clermont Ave.) (Chancery Building, First Floor) Brooklyn, NY Keep in mind that technically Middle Village LI is bordering Queens and Brooklyn, so this is probably the cemetery you want. I too just sent a letter requesting some information from them, I just hope the office is still around. Sorry I didn't have the exact address for the cemetery, or the zip codes. Let me know if you are successful! Success in Searching, Patty City Island, NY ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #6 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:14:45 GMT From: To: Message-ID: <5uo3r4$> Subject: Henry W. WARREN Looking for information or descendants of Henry W. WARREN, born 1860 in Ontario, Canada. Immigrated to USA around 1870 and ended up homesteading in Forest River area of North Dakota, 1880. Possibly lived in NY state for a year or two prior to moving to ND.. Fathers name, John C. Warren ( C for Carroll ) and mothers name was Mary Jane. He had a sister named Jane who was born 1858. Parents also homesteaded in Forest River area of North Dakota. ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #7 Date: 5 Sep 1997 05:35:17 GMT From: "Mike Wheelock" <> To: Message-ID: <01bcb9bd$79969340$> Subject: Rahestraw?? I'm posting this in case some one can help here. If any one can help reply either to me or the reply address above. Thank you Mike Wheelock Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:07:25 -0700 From: Sandra &Van Jackson <> Reply-to: To: Subject: ancestors I need some advise. A neighbor of mine has been trying to trace his ancestors.(Rakestraw's) He is looking for great-great- grandfather J.F. Rakestraw (joseph Florney Rakestraw) Supposedly he died 8/27/1862 He is trying to locate where he is buried.(Maybe in Gravesville, GA)but not for sure. He asked me to see what I could find on the net. I have no idea how to start looking. Could you tell me how I could go about finding information? I linked you by the Rakestraw name. Thanks. Sandra ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #8 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 17:27:24 -0700 From: Carl Cason <> To: Message-ID: <5ud3rf$> Subject: Re: bad things about FTM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheryl Singhal wrote: > Will someone -- ANYone -- kindly explain to me how on God's green earth > it can easier to type > Schmidt Johan Jakob Yingleheimer > into program A than into program B?!? Some programs, perhaps many, provide some little shortcuts for entering names. For instance, in BK, children's surnames can be automatically entered with ctrl-, which saves a lot of keying. -- Carl Cason, of Bothell, Washington email: ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #9 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 01:05:35 -0500 From: howard or jeff <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: New Webpage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come see the new webpage The Present Meets The Past http://www.earthlink.net/~howardorjeff/main.html There is a mixture of genealogical links and ancestors. Thanks, Jeffery Johnson and Howard Garner ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #10 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:27:49 -0500 From: Steve Brown <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: finding the baldauf family Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i would like to find people with the last name of baldauf kathryn ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #11 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:43:53 -0800 From: To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Russian spy Rudolph Ivanovich Abel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for info on this man's genealogy. Does anyone know where I might find something? Does anyone have ties to him in thier own genealogy? According to the FBI file he was born July 2, 1902. Thanks ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #12 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 02:45:30 -0700 From: Angela Meade <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Surviving The Millenium Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Surviving The Millenium A Handbook for the Survival of the Inner Self Learn the secrets of making it into the next century without a mental or metaphysical meltdown. Learn the simple steps to meditation and a renewel of the spirit. Simple, easy to read; no degrees needed Learn how to change your life and understand some of the strange patterns in your life and how to change them. Send $12.95 plus $3.00 shipping to: Light Millenium Press P.O. Box 395 Hurley, Ms39555 ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #13 Date: 5 Sep 97 05:44:51 GMT From: Diane Jarvie <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: DESPERATELY SEEKING DAWTERS I am seeking information about a family named DAWTERS (DAUGHTERS) from Maidstone and Frindsbury, Kent, England. Given Names: Thomas, Jane, Selina, Emery (Emily), Maria, Sarah, Jesse, Daniel Alfred. (My branch Selina). Any leads welcome. ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #14 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 05:24:39 -0400 From: Woody Burkey <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: Newbie roadblock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go to your local Library and see if they have Census and soundex films for 1880 for the County & State in question. Look for a 2-3 year old child with your Great-Grandfather's name. Have you found a death record? -- J. W. (Woody) Burkey Cincinnati,Ohio <> ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #15 Date: 5 Sep 1997 09:35:42 GMT From: BigJohn10<> To: Message-ID: <5uojpe$lvt$> Subject: BigJohn10 LQQking For A Wife! Are You The One???? This is an attempt to search the world over for that special lady to spend the rest of my life with! I am a single white male lQQking for a wife, it dosen't matter where I have to look I WILL find her! To help BigJohn10 find his special lady, go to his home page to find out more about what he is looking for ! Oh yeah, there is a lot of entertainment there also!!! http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/marina/1489/index.html Any help on your part would be greatly appreciated! While there, be sure to sign my Guest Book. Beware of the "Love Spell Dance", I can't be held responsible for any after/side affects caused by the "Love Spell" ! This is a very powerfull spell. View at YOUR risk ONLY !!!!! *note* This post is not intended for guys or gays! ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #16 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:12:11 -0400 From: Jock Gill <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Daniel Allen 1781 - 1840 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D179DA19432E71F5EC06C70B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D179DA19432E71F5EC06C70B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for information on a Daniel Allen b. June 15, 1781 ??? d. March 1840 - probably in Lockport, NY know to have had 10 children. Oldest was Phoebe m. Davenport Phoebe had a daughter: Lorain Elizabeth Davenport [b mar 1848 - d. Aug 1848] named after grandmother? Our family tradition is that he is the son of Ira Allen, Ethan Allen's brother. Mother unknown. Could the mother be Lorain(e) Allen [b. April 1763, d. in 20th yr? 1782?] Died of consumption. Probably in Arlington, VT. Buried? Lorain Allen was Ethan's oldest child? Please email any information you might have. Many thanks, Jock Gill [Jonathan Penfield Gill] -- ____________________________________________________________________ Jock Gill www.penfield-gill.com ____________________________________________________________________ --------------D179DA19432E71F5EC06C70B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Jock Gill Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Jock Gill n: Gill;Jock org: Penfield Gill, Incorporated email;internet: title: Principal x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------D179DA19432E71F5EC06C70B-- ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #17 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:35:16 -0600 From: To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Bishop, Filbert, Adams genealogy I am looking for any information on the Bishop, Adams, or Filbert Families that resided in Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, and Ohio in and around the Civil war. If you have any information, please email me. Thanks -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #18 Date: 5 Sep 1997 12:58:50 GMT From: "Shelley Brideaux" <> To: Message-ID: <01bcb9fc$8d1fcd20$> Subject: Help!! Can one of you very well-informed individuals PLEASE tell me where I might find the site address for the Family Tree Maker website? Thank-you all very much. Your friend in research, Shelley Brideaux ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #19 Date: 5 Sep 1997 06:10:54 -0700 From: To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: FTM vs. PAF 3.0 and the 80% market debate In a message dated 97-09-05 05:46:17 EDT, you write: << Hey, when y'all get this resolved, could you help me find the answer to another equally important argument? Namely, which is better, Ford or Chevy? >> Yes I am curious about this answer too. I am rolling on the floor in laughter. I usually don't read the posts with the Re: FTM vs. PAF 3.0 and the 80% market debate, but for some reason I read this one. I really enjoy this list but I am getting annoyed at all the argueing over software. My opinion is to each his own. ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #20 Date: 5 Sep 1997 06:17:39 -0700 From: To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Seiler Hello All, This is my first post to the list. My husbands great grandfather came to the US from Germany or at least they say he did. No one in the family has any records and I can not find any where, a social secruity number for him. His name was Max or Maximillian (not sure on spelling) Seiler. I know his one son who is suppose to be they youngest was born in about 1910. I am looking for the ship he may have come to the US on. I also know that he left 2 sons over in Germany with his wife there. If anyone can tell me what steps I need to take please either e-mail me at I would like to also say how much I enjoy reading the posts to this list. I find it fascinating. Thank you in advance, Tammy () ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #21 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:19:44 +0000 From: Ed Eide <> To: Message-ID: <5up0oq$> Subject: Re: FTM vs. PAF 3.0 and the 80% market debate Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wrote: > > In a message dated 97-09-05 05:46:17 EDT, you write: > > << Hey, when y'all get this resolved, could you help me find the answer > to another equally important argument? Namely, which is better, Ford > or Chevy? > > >> > Yes I am curious about this answer too. I am rolling on the floor in > laughter. I usually don't read the posts with the Re: FTM vs. PAF 3.0 and > the 80% market debate, but for some reason I read this one. I really enjoy > this list but I am getting annoyed at all the argueing over software. My > opinion is to each his own. Amen !!! ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #22 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 13:15:28 GMT From: (K.B. Johnston) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: Help!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In <01bcb9fc$8d1fcd20$>, "Shelley Brideaux" <> posted the following: >Can one of you very well-informed individuals PLEASE tell me where I might >find the site address for the Family Tree Maker website? Try this>> http://www.familytreemaker.com/ ____ Drinking coffee,...reasonably alert ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #23 Date: 5 Sep 1997 13:27:41 GMT From: (Mfernest) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: ALBANY,NY ARCHIVES QUESTION Assume you are speaking of the State Library. First check on their hours: they have been restricted in the past, due to funding. There is a large genealogical section which includes copies of the DAR collections for the state chapters in NY -- bible records, cemetery inscriptions, a few town records -- this was probably the most valuable to me. LDS has filmed the collection, but it is NOT well indexed. For example, a bible record for the TEFFT family may include references to the BARBER & KENYON families, which will not appear in any of the indexes. Same condition for cemetery inscriptions... So it is nice to be able to pull the books and scan records for the town/county you are researching. Also, they have a substantial collection of NY newspapers on film plus some of the items more usually found in larger libraries (genealogies, local histories, etc.). There is a genealogical volunteer on duty who is helpful. Of course, you need the usual information -- names, dates, locations, family group sheets, etc. There are also self service copiers, so copies aren't a problem. Good luck ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #24 Date: 5 Sep 1997 13:49:40 GMT From: (BAYOU JAC) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: Princess Diana's geneology I would like a copy of it too, if anyone has it. BayouJac Genealogy. It's the only way to dig...relatively speaking!!! ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #25 Date: 5 Sep 1997 13:49:38 GMT From: (BAYOU JAC) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: DEATH OF PRINCESS DIANA Princess Diana may have been "Britain's Princess"... but we, as Americans adopted her as our own! We love Diana and miss her deeply! I don't know what time her funeral will be (in Britain), but no matter what the hour here in the states, I will be watching. I watched her wedding when I was nine years old, and I don't think I could bare to miss saying goodbye to "The Queen of HEARTS"! <3 <3<3<3<3 My heart, wishes and prayers go out for Prince William and Prince Harry. BayouJac Genealogy. It's the only way to dig...relatively speaking!!! ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #26 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:12:27 -0400 From: Jim Roache <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: Princess Diana's geneology Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Her genealogy can be found at the following site. Go the the Principality of Wales Link. http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/public/genealogy/royal/#BritishIsles Her mother was a Roche from Fermoy so be careful what you say :-) Jim BAYOU JAC wrote: > I would like a copy of it too, if anyone has it. > BayouJac > -- *********************************************** Please feel free to Visit my Home Page(s) at... http://tor-pw1.netcom.ca/~jfroache/jim.html 3 Main Subjects: Info Canada, FMS and Genealogy *********************************************** ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #27 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:13:42 -0400 From: Jim Roache <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: Princess Diana's geneology Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Her genealogy can be found at the following site. Go the the Principality of Wales Link. http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/public/genealogy/royal/#BritishIsles Her mother was a Roche from Fermoy so be careful what you say :-) Jim BAYOU JAC wrote: > I would like a copy of it too, if anyone has it. > BayouJac > -- *********************************************** Please feel free to Visit my Home Page(s) at... http://tor-pw1.netcom.ca/~jfroache/jim.html 3 Main Subjects: Info Canada, FMS and Genealogy *********************************************** ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #28 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 09:49:37 -0500 From: "J. Dutch Revenboer" <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Mexican War - Texas Mounted Volunteers - Bell's Regiment Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am hoping someone out there will have information on, or know where I can research, information on BELL'S REGIMENT, TEXAS MOUNTED VOLUNTEERS, and it's involvement in the Mexican War 1846-1848. I have an ancestor who signed up and was with Capt. JOHNSON's company, then Capt. SMITH's company from 4-1847 to 12-1848. I would like to know the history of this unit, and possibly get a roster? Many thanks for your help. Dutch ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #29 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 14:47:16 GMT From: (Eric Augusteijn) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: genealogy software On Wed, 03 Sep 1997 05:40:13 -0600, Don Nickell <> wrote: > >David Price wrote: >> >> Hi New researcher looking for some help please. >> >> Can anybody recommend a good Shareware genealogy program, >> or perhaps a Microsoft Access database configured to hold >> my records. I have Access 95. > >Hi, David, there are many good genealogy data bases out there today. You >DON'T want to mess with a non-genealogy data base!!! I personally like >Personal Ancestoral Files (PAF, $18 from the LDS church) which you can >try out at a local Church of JC of the Latter Day Saints (see yellow >pages) that has a Family History Center. And you might as well find a >Center, they are indespensible to your genealogy research--they don't >want you in church unless you ask. > >Someone's bound to come back with some good Web Pages for software >review, I just no longer have any. You can check out: >http://www.genealogy.org/~paf/ > or >http://www.citynet.net/mostwanted/ >as starters. > >Good luck >Don > > Try http://www.toltbbs.com/~kbasile/software.html Eric ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #30 Date: 5 Sep 1997 14:57:21 GMT From: (Charles Wood) To: Message-ID: <5up6kh$> Subject: Re: ALBANY,NY ARCHIVES QUESTION Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII I'm not sure what you mean by the Albany, N.Y. archives. My brother and I went to the State Library there two years ago to chase down some elusive information on a relative. We had a very negative experience. The lady at the research desk kept answering the telephone and couldn't be bothered with assisting us. We gave that up and did some fishing around, then requested a microfilm reel. The attendant brought out the wrong reel and then disappeared. This was mid-morning, not lunch time, not quitting time. In every way, that place represented the stereotypical government agency, staffed with uncaring people. Maybe all of the regular staff was on vacation. We weren't asking them to do research for us, just point us in the right direction so we could do our own thing. It was so bad, I can't imagine anyone going back there a second time. On the up side, when I requested information through the mail, I got exactly what I wanted, with a good turn around. So, go figure. Let's keep our fingers crossed that I just hit them on a bad day. In article <01bcb939$feb6d280$>, says... > >Within the next week I will be making a trip to the Albany, NY Archives. >What can I expect to find there and is there anyone assigned to the area to >help researchers? What if any costs are there to information I may want >copies of? Is there anything in particular I should bring with me other >than the obvious? > >Thanks for you time and help. >Cindy >-- > > >The Quackenbosch/Quackenbush Family Page >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2850 >The shortest distance between two people is a smile! ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #31 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 11:00:46 -0500 From: Richard Lonsbury <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Alice Marvin/Joseph Watts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for additional information about Alice Marvin, b' 1867. d' 1949, m' October 14, 1884 to Joseph Asher Watts. Any information about his or her exact date and place of birth, date and place of death, cause of death, where married, her middle name, her parents, etc., would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Richard Lonsbury rlon#dfw.net ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #32 Date: 5 Sep 1997 17:05:22 GMT From: (KDAD40) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: DESPERATELY SEEKING DAWTERS Diane Jarvie () wrote: >I am seeking information about a family named >DAWTERS (DAUGHTERS) from Maidstone and Frindsbury, >Kent, England. Is that so? I am seeking information about a family named SOHNS (SONNS) from Hesse-Darmstadt, Germany, who landed in New York City 1835. Father Johann Frederich, mother Anna Margaretha (Haessel), kids Henry, John F., Margaret and William. Isn't genealogy wonderful? Reg Pitts ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #33 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:27:55 GMT From: (Charles) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: genforum Has anyone used genforum? What results if any have you had? thanks Charles Duncan