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Archiver > ALT-GENEALOGY > 2000-08 > 0965352127


From: Robert Heiling <>
Subject: Re: on Genealogy Warning
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 18:22:07 -0700


borray wrote:

> typical:
> 1613 de borrai (french soldier) several times,

Where was he from originally?

> 1680 borray,(jewish version) several times,
> 1686 till now borra (dutch version), many times.

You haven't mentioned the materials I sent you yesterday, but they indicate
that "borra" and "borrai" are words from the Basque language. In addition, the
website: http://newcrop.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/1492/neglected.html indicates a
certain crop that seems to be specific to the Iberian peninsula for which the
Basque name is (per below) "borrai" and I quote a portion of the article:

"Botanical name: Borago officinalis L.

Family: Boraginaceae

Common names. English: borage, cool tankard; Spanish: borraja, borraja común,
borraga, borracha, bora, corrago,
alcohelo, flores cordiales; Catalan: borratja, borraina, pa-i-pexet; Basque:
borrai, borroin, murrum, assunasa, porraiña;
Portuguese and Galician: borrage, borragem, erva borragem, borraxa"

I submit that it is possible that the surname "Borrai" originated in the crop
that was grown by those people.

> The name de borrai, borray and borra is not a common name in holland
> or in other parts of the world. It is very rare.

I showed you where it appeared in Hungary in 1891, but, you're right, it's not
a common surname. You need, IMO, to investigate any connections in history
between the Basque people and the Sephardim.

> Your are obcessed by the clerck ( typical us ?) and never a word about the
> discrimination of Jewish people.

I misunderstood your earlier posts and thought that you had a specific city
council document that authorized the name change. I'll be more careful in the
future and ask more questions. :-)

> Lots of Jewish people in those day (after1580 alva) changed for that reason
> their
> name and religion but that was in europe not in the states.

As did many non-Jewish people change their religion before & after the
Reformation!

> This family lived for more than 400 years in the same city,
> this must be very strange in the mind of an american, sorry.

In some of the older US cities, the same surnames have existed for about that
long. But you are talking here to a special group of people (Americans & many
others) who study genealogy and history and don't find that 400 years to be
very surprising.

> I only agree with you on the point that they came from abroad before 1600.

Yes. People did travel and move to other countries back then also.

> Don't forget that the development of the us-society the last 400 years is
> totally different from europe and also the development of the clercks.
> You have very nice computers but the Japanese are better, lol, lol.

Really? Who makes cpu's in common use for personal computers (PC's) other than
the American companies of Intel & AMD? Which brand are you using?<LOL>

> It costed me more than 25 years to get rid of my projections before
> I could look to these things in a proper way.
> After world-war two I grew up in the small village of Putten (complete
> deportated
> by the germans), always discriminated as a little boy by my name borra.

It's not exactly a Dutch name, but how would it have been if your name had been
Jones?<LOL>

> For that reason I am searching, wanted to know what was going on with
> that name.

Follow up on some of the possible leads I've given you.

> But I'l find out, thanks for your comments,

The best of luck to you.

Bob

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