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Archiver > ALT-GENEALOGY > 2000-08 > 0965384577


From: "borray" <>
Subject: Re: on Genealogy Warning
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:22:57 GMT


You are complete right, it is very comfortable here in holland, too
comfortable I think.
And it is so small, that have big consequences between our ears.

pieter.

Carole heeft geschreven in bericht <>...
>And of course remember the expulsion of the Jews from Spain,
>finalized ~1492 by good old Ferdy and Izzy, but started 400 years
>earlier contemporaneous with the first crusades (1085). They could
>easily have moved from Spain into France, then finding it not so
>hospitable, moved on again to Holland.
>.
>
>On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 18:22:07 -0700, Robert Heiling <>
>wrote:
>
>>>
>>You haven't mentioned the materials I sent you yesterday, but they
indicate
>>that "borra" and "borrai" are words from the Basque language. In addition,
the
>>website: http://newcrop.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/1492/neglected.html
indicates a
>>certain crop that seems to be specific to the Iberian peninsula for which
the
>>Basque name is (per below) "borrai" and I quote a portion of the article:
>>
>>"Botanical name: Borago officinalis L.
>>
>>Family: Boraginaceae
>>
>>Common names. English: borage, cool tankard; Spanish: borraja, borraja
comn,
>>borraga, borracha, bora, corrago,
>>alcohelo, flores cordiales; Catalan: borratja, borraina, pa-i-pexet;
Basque:
>>borrai, borroin, murrum, assunasa, porraia;
>>Portuguese and Galician: borrage, borragem, erva borragem, borraxa"
>>
>>I submit that it is possible that the surname "Borrai" originated in the
crop
>>that was grown by those people.
>>
>>> The name de borrai, borray and borra is not a common name in holland
>>> or in other parts of the world. It is very rare.
>>
>>I showed you where it appeared in Hungary in 1891, but, you're right, it's
not
>>a common surname. You need, IMO, to investigate any connections in history
>>between the Basque people and the Sephardim.
>>
>>> Your are obcessed by the clerck ( typical us ?) and never a word about
the
>>> discrimination of Jewish people.
>>
>>I misunderstood your earlier posts and thought that you had a specific
city
>>council document that authorized the name change. I'll be more careful in
the
>>future and ask more questions. :-)
>>
>>> Lots of Jewish people in those day (after1580 alva) changed for that
reason
>>> their
>>> name and religion but that was in europe not in the states.
>>
>>As did many non-Jewish people change their religion before & after the
>>Reformation!
>>
>>> This family lived for more than 400 years in the same city,
>>> this must be very strange in the mind of an american, sorry.
>>
>>In some of the older US cities, the same surnames have existed for about
that
>>long. But you are talking here to a special group of people (Americans &
many
>>others) who study genealogy and history and don't find that 400 years to
be
>>very surprising.
>>
>>> I only agree with you on the point that they came from abroad before
1600.
>>
>>Yes. People did travel and move to other countries back then also.
>>
>>> Don't forget that the development of the us-society the last 400 years
is
>>> totally different from europe and also the development of the clercks.
>>> You have very nice computers but the Japanese are better, lol, lol.
>>
>>Really? Who makes cpu's in common use for personal computers (PC's) other
than
>>the American companies of Intel & AMD? Which brand are you using?<LOL>
>>
>>> It costed me more than 25 years to get rid of my projections before
>>> I could look to these things in a proper way.
>>> After world-war two I grew up in the small village of Putten (complete
>>> deportated
>>> by the germans), always discriminated as a little boy by my name borra.
>>
>>It's not exactly a Dutch name, but how would it have been if your name had
been
>>Jones?<LOL>
>>
>>> For that reason I am searching, wanted to know what was going on with
>>> that name.
>>
>>Follow up on some of the possible leads I've given you.
>>
>>> But I'l find out, thanks for your comments,
>>
>>The best of luck to you.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
>

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