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Archiver > ANGLO-ITALIAN > 2002-04 > 1018663391


From: Diane Webb <>
Subject: RE: [Anglo-Italian] Re: Ice Cream
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:03:11 -0700
In-Reply-To: <3CB77A98.E420C797@xtra.co.nz>


Hello Daphne, I read your message with great - several factors gel with my
gtgranmother's family. The surname EROTTI / EROTY (possibly the English
variant) arrived in England 1858/59 and on ggrandmother's first marriage
certificate her father's occupation is listed as 'musician'. I have been
unable to find any variant of the name on any Census record. London was
given as her birthplace but I have nothing more than that.


Does your publication "TheItalian Factor..." say anything about Italian
migration around the late 1850's?

In regards to my family, another researcher turned up the name EROLI /
Guiseppe, merchant marine and suggested this is probably my family, some of
the documentation supporting this theory looks like it could fit but it
belies the story gg'mother told about her family's background. Oh dear,
just what does one believe!

Anyway, thank you for your informative message. Diane

-----Original Message-----
From: Daphne Dashfield [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 5:24 PM
To:
Subject: [Anglo-Italian] Re: Ice Cream


Colpi, 1991, "The Italian Factor : The Italian community in Great Britain"
describes the development of the Italian
catering industry in Britain. (Highly recommended reading) It seems to start
with the declining popularity of street
musicians (by 1880s) and introduction of importing and selling roast
chestnuts from the Garfagnana, Lunigiana, Val Taro
(Pr) and Val Magra areas. (Not Naples)

Gatti (an ice importer) introduced ice cream in the 1850s and in 1864
Domenico Santorelli from Longarone (Bl) brought
an handpainted ice cream cart shaped like a gondala with him. Ice cream
making was carried out at home and became very
popular as a mainly summer activity, with chestnuts in winter. Fleets of
barrows were owned by Padrone (ie bosses that
employed other Italians) with about 900 ice cream barrows in Clerkenwell,
London at the turn of the twentieth century.
(It took place in other areas too and I don't see why it couldn't involve
someone from Naples - although the term
'Neapolitan' was used more generally for Italians)

My gg grandfather from northern Italy, probably Parma province, previously a
musician, was an ice cream maker in 1876
then an ice cream seller (1881) and back as a street musician by 1891 (in
Clerkenwell). Seem to be typical occupations
for this community.

It's probably important to grasp the padrone system whereby the "bosses"
brought in friends and family from their home
areas and employed them in their businesses. Perhaps a padrone had labouring
businesses as well as ice cream? Certainly
later on some of my family (sons of the musician/ice cream maker) ran an
asphalting business employing others as
labourers. Dirty work that Italians would take on where British were
reluctant.

Daphne Dashfield (Geradine)
GHIRARDANI etc.



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