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Archiver > APG > 2008-05 > 1210929195


From: "Vera Nagel" <>
Subject: [APG] FW: Puzzling Questions RE German, German Jews,and Citizenship
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:13:15 +0200


-----Original Message-----
From: Vera Nagel [mailto:]
Sent: Freitag, 16. Mai 2008 11:11
To: 'Ray Beere Johnson II'
Subject: RE: [APG] Puzzling Questions RE German, German Jews, and
Citizenship

Hello Ray,

your translation is almost perfect. Minor changes to cover the German text
more exactly are put in [ ] brackets - please see below:

The birth of [their] son
Marcel Chain
is delightedly [announced] by
Chana and Heinz Nakler
[formerly] Berlin
Sao Paulo (Brazil)
Rua Siqueira Bueno, 284

>Since family members might have been out of touch during the war years, is
it >possible this might have been a delayed announcement?

Yes, this may be possible.

>In effect "Our son Marcel was born a few years ago, but we didn't have a
chance to >let the whole family know, so we're publishing this now..." If
this is possible, how >common was such a practice?

I don't know how common such practice was but as you said: they might or
better say probably **were** out of touch with the family during the war
years and probably they didn't know if family members had survived WWII and
where possible surviving family members lived at that time. So may be this
announcement was made to let anybody related or interested know: We're
here... in Sao Paulo (Brazil)....

Dual Citizenship - Retaining German Citizenship

The applicable law at that time in Germany was the
"Reichs- und Staatsangehoerigkeitsgesetz" (RuStAG) from July, 22 1913 which
was changed / modified multiple times and was in effect until 2005 when it
was replaced by the new German "Staatsangehoerigkeitsgesetz" (StAG).

According to § 17, 2 of the RuStAG (in general among other reasons): German
citizenship will be lost..... when a foreign citizenship is achieved (§ 25)
... say when a German citizen was naturalized in a foreign country.
But there were exceptions to this rule and a German citizen could make an
official request that he / she was allowed to retain German citizenship!!

So the short and **much** abbreviated (simplified) answer to your question
is: Yes, it is and was possible to have dual citizenship - say retain the
German citizenship although being naturalized as well by another country.

Hope this helps a little to solve the puzzle.

Kind regards,
Vera Nagel (Bad Soden, Hessen, Germany)


-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On Behalf
Of Ray Beere Johnson II
Sent: Freitag, 16. Mai 2008 01:53
To: APG Posting
Subject: [APG] Puzzling Questions RE German, German Jews, and Citizenship

Hello;
I hope someone who actually *knows* German can confirm the sense of a
very brief translation, and perhaps a researcher familiar with German-Jewish
issues can suggest an answer to this puzzle.
I happened via Google upon an online copy of a specific page (19) from
the Friday, September 21, 1945 edition of AUFBAU which bears a notice of
extreme interest to me, in German.
The original notice:

Die Geburt ihres Sohnes
Marcel Chain
zeigen hocherfreut an
Chana und Heinz Nakler
fruher Berlin
Sao Paulo (Brasil)
Rua Siqueira Bueno, 284

My attempt to translate and make sense of it:

The birth of her son
Marcel Chain
is delightedly registered by
Chana and Heinz Nakler
from Berlin
Sao Paulo (Brazil)
Rua Siqueira Bueno, 284

I assume the address at the bottom is where they were living at the
time of this announcement / "registration", as their grandson, my
son-in-law, is from Sao Paulo, Brazil.
First question: if you know German, is my version accurate enough to
let me understand what this means? (I'm not trying for perfection, just
sense.)
Second question: the family has always said Marcel arrived with them in
Brazil as a baby when they fled Germany in 1939. I do note there is no date
given on this notice. Since family members might have been out of touch
during the war years, is it possible this might have been a delayed
announcement? In effect "Our son Marcel was born a few years ago, but we
didn't have a chance to let the whole family know, so we're publishing this
now..." If this is possible, how common was such a practice?
Final question: my son-in-law has dual citizenship, Brazilian and
German. If his grand-parents had left Germany in 1939, would this be
possible? If they left *after* the war, would that make a difference? I am
wondering if the story of arriving in 1939 might have been invented to avoid
having to discuss their experiences in concentration camps. (I do know there
are records in Brazil that might offer answers. First, obtaining them would
take time; we are going crazy wondering what this may mean. Second,
obtaining them would almost certainly come to the attention of Marcel, who
works for the government. That might be awkward; we don't know how he'd feel
about the issue. He seems to know almost nothing of his family's history,
beyond the story of his arrival, and to have little or no interest.)
Thanks in advance for any help,

Ray Beere Johnson II









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