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From: "Presbury \(Arizona\)" <>
Subject: Re: [APG] Anglicizing Dutch Names
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:24:24 -0700


Thank you Jay!

Can we add to this thread?

Cultural bias and pronunciations influence our family stories in many ways.
Sometimes it's the interpretation of a "cultural" heritage that weaves a
story through generations of naming patterns.

One of my genealogical quests has been identifying the man who married
Mary^3 Firestone (1789-1869), dau. of Matthias^2 (Nicholas^1) [1]. This
Firestone family considered itself of German heritage.

Mary's husband's given, name, when reported, was Richard (incl. Richaard,
Ricard, Riccard Ritchard ....), frequently with the middle initial L. The
surname was much more fun -- Carroll, Carol, Carl, Karl, Karle, Carle,
Carrl, Carrel, Carel, Corl ...( you don't need me to go on, do you). It was
in passing interest that Mary's brother had married a women who often
recorded with the surname Karl or Carroll.

To make a long story just a little shorter, a notation on Donna Speer
Ristenbatt's web site, _On the Trail of Our Ancestors_ for "Dutch Baptismal
Names" [ http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy/dutch_na.htm ] (accessed 1998)
began to open a door, for it calls out the Dutch names "Derrick/Dirck/Dirk"
with an English equivalent, "Richard" [2].

In the 10 years since Donna's notations were found, we have discovered the
items believed necessary to prove Richard's parentage. We know also that
Richard was named for his maternal grandfather, Derrick/Dirck Low(e), who
was quite Dutch. The published record of Richard's baptism was discovered or
rediscovered not long ago in "Neshanic Reformed Church Baptismal Records,
Early Records, 1762-1796" (1912); Neshanic Reformed Dutch Protestant Church,
it reads "Cerel, Josif and Maria--Dirick Lou, bap. June 8, 1777" [3] .

Separately, we know now that Richard's sister, Rebecca [4], did indeed marry
Mary's brother, George Firestone.

But wait ... that's only part of the story ... understanding that given name
"Dirck" only opened the door. I hope we'll learn one day if the surname
Lowe/Lowe has its own story to tell with its own set of cultural bias.

It would seem at least some of Richard's children/descendants believed or
came to believe he was of German heritage, and we find given names passed
along in one branch Carl/Karl. We've found the appearance in the same
families of a mysterious middle initial L.

My grandfather happened to be one with this mysterious middle name that
began with L., and he passed that "middle name" along to my Uncle Jack. As
Jack (1904-1997) relayed, his father didn't know what true name was supposed
to be and wasn't sure how it should properly be pronounced. According to
Jack, it was a quandary for grandfather when of an age that someone required
he disclose a "full" middle name on a form or application. To make a long
story short, it became recorded first in someone else's hand as Leo. All my
grandfather could tell my uncle was that it "wasn't Leo." Many years later
when my uncle had reached a similar point in life, he discussed it with his
father and opted to just write down "Leo" rather than argue that he couldn't
really tell them what it was supposed to be. Thus we find a record here or
there with the middle name Leo. "But all I know is that it begins with L and
it isn't Leo," Uncle Jack (1904-1997) relayed at different times in his
life.

I continue on the trail, hoping one day to learn if that mysterious middle
initial L. might have once have been a Germanic interpretation of the older
Dutch family surname Lou/Low/Lowe--itself derived from a patronymic and
thus, the given name "Laurens."


Now ... back to that trail. --Presbury, AZ


[1] For one, see George Ely Russell, C.G., FASG, FNGS, "Firestone Family of
Frederick County, Maryland," _Western Maryland Genealogy_, Vol. 9, No. 1
(Jan 1993), pgs 2-14, and Vol. 9, No. 2 (April 1993), pgs 62-72; entry for
#7-Mathias^2 Firestone at vol. 9, No. 2, pgs 63-64.

[2] See also, Mr. William Nelson, "English [equivalent of] Dutch Names,"
_Somerset County Historical Quarterly_, Volume VI, No. 1 (January, 1917),
page 47 (Somerville, New Jersey : Somerset County Historical Society, 1917);
online transcribed edition by subscription, _GenealogyLibrary.com_
(http://www.genealogylibrary.com : extracted 15 June 2007)

[3] A. Van Doren Honeyman, "Neshanic Reformed Church Baptismal Records,
Early Records, 1762-1796," _Somerset County Historical Quarterly_, ongoing
series beginning Volume I, No. 2 (April 1912) (Somerville, New Jersey :
Somerset County Historical Society, April 1912); online transcribed digital
edition by subscription, GenealogyLibrary.com
(http://www.genealogylibrary.com : extracted 15 Jun 2007); the church
baptism records were made in Dutch through the Revolutionary War, and were
arranged earlier by date, the Quarterly editor (Honeyman) alphabetized the
entries; the Low/Lowe baptisms were recorded under the surname Lou, even
though Dirck Lowe's name appears elsewhere in the church records as Low
and/or Lowe

[4] I record Richard and Rebecca generally with the surname spelling Carle
and hope one day to learn more of that surname's origins.



-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On Behalf
Of
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:22 AM
To: ; ; ;

Subject: Re: [APG] Anglicizing Dutch Names

Perhaps, the lesson from all this discussion about anglicization of names is
that, in family history research, we have to be alert to name shifts over
the course of a person's life.? One of the challenges in genealogical
research is correlating information from multiple sources to verify that the
man known later in life as George was named Jort by his parents, or that the
woman known as Clara in the U.S. was Karin in Norway.? As some have pointed
out, certain collections of names and certain kinds of names shifts might
characterize a particular immigrant community (say, Michigan Dutch vs. Iowa
Dutch), and the spoken sound of the original Dutch/Norwegian/Czech name
might give clues to how the name that got Anglicized.? But the bottom line
is: there are probably no hard and fast rules, and the only way to be sure
is to correlate information from multiple sources through a person's life.?
That is, prove that George is the same man as Jort.? Never assume anything
about naming pa!
tterns or "translations" of non-English names into English.

Jay Fonkert, CG
St. Paul, MN


-----Original Message-----
From: doumajk <>
To: Ida Skarson McCormick <>; Lynda Suffridge
<>;
Cc:
Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: [APG] Anglicizing Dutch Names



Reading these comments has got me wondering, maybe someone else has a
different
perspective --
How much would the makeup of new community affect the name chosen? My Dutch

ancestors all came over and settled in and around Holland, Michigan - no big

change there - many neighbors knew the old names. I see "Olivia" as very
foreign in that community! And just did a quick search of the given name
only in
1860-70 census and found very few Olivia's there, all with what are pretty
"English"y names.
On the other hand, moving to a more diverse community, or one with at least
a
different ethnic majority, would make a difference, I would guess.

Jane





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