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Archiver > APG > 2009-02 > 1234123702


From: "Richard A. Pence" <>
Subject: Re: [APG] Copyright Mavens - 1700s & 1800s documents
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:08:22 -0500
References: <28111509.1396851234114966235.JavaMail.root@mbs7.homesteadmail.com>


Oh, my goodness, but there appears to be a lot of misinformed silliness
about copyright laws among some archivists.

There can be no copyright ownership of anything published in the U.S. prior
to the early 1920s (I forget the exact year off-hand, but we are talking
about much earlier documents). Nor can there be a copyright if it were
republished or a photocopy made. (Someone should tell the Catholic archivist
that it is illegal to claim a copyright where no exists.)

We sometimes forget, as Joan alluded to, when discussing copyrights that
something else is at issue: physical ownership.

The archives don't own a copyright to these record books - but they surely
own them and as the owners they can deny access to them for any reason they
wish. (A person in possession of a letter written, say, in the 1940s by some
famous person cannot publish the letter because the writer still owns to
copyright, but he owns the physical piece of paper and can deny access or
sell it or do whatever with it.)

Methinks these archivists are confusing physical ownership with ownership of
the writing within.

What strikes me as odd about these stories is this: Since when did it become
an archivist job to DENY access to the knowledge within books like this?)

One final point: If these are books that contain births, deaths and
marriages, then the contents are facts and no one can copyright them.

It is one thing when a Kinko's clerk tells me I can't have a copy of
something made for my personal use because it is copyrighted (as one once
did), It is quite another for an archivist to be so ignorant of copyright
law.

Grumbling,
Richard P.
Fairfax, Virginia


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Dee King,Certified Genealogist"
<>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [APG] Copyright Mavens - 1700s & 1800s documents


> Let me clarify. These are original church registers of marriages, deaths,
> baptismals, etc. The books were removed or stolen from the churches
> perhaps in the early 1900s. These wound up in some lawyer's collection
> that was donated to a regional branch of a university. The works were not
> published, there is no database or compilation that I am aware of. I just
> contacted another person who who tried to access the records. He was told
> the archives would provide a "copyrighted photocopy". No new or original
> material added, simply a photocopy of a page from a church register
> created in the late 1700s.
>
> Another person tried to access records from other books from the same
> church, but held at a Catholic archives. The Catholic archives posts
> notices that it holds the copyright on all records created by the Catholic
> church, including these ancient documents.
>
> d
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: "peggy baldwin" <>,
> Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2009 11:20:45 AM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
> Subject: Re: [APG] Copyright Mavens - 1700s & 1800s documents
>
> Peggy-
>
> Works that were published in the 1700 and 1800s, assuming they were
> published in the USA, are no longer under copyright. They probably have
> the right to
> deny access to their database but not to the *books for reason of
> copyright*.
> The archives would possibly have a compilation copyright to their
> database
> and it is their choice whether or not to allow access to their
> database--but
> they most definitely don't hold copyright to the books. Perhaps they are
> referring to a compilation copyright.
>
> Joan
>
>
> In a message dated 2/8/2009 12:12:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> What!? Copyright is for the life of the author plus 70 years. Maybe they
> have a legitimate reason for denying access, but I don't believe
> copyright is
> it. Besides, I don't think an archive would have copyright, the author
> would. I
> think the archives may be giving an answer that works with most people.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
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>
> --
> Dee Dee King, Certified Genealogist (sm), Certificate 903
> www.ForensicGenealogyServices.com
>
> Forensic Genealogy Services is the Service Mark of Forensic Genealogy
> Services, LLC
>
> Certified Genealogist (CG) is a service mark (sm) of the board for
> Certification of Genealogists® conferred to associates who consistently
> meet ethical and competency standards in accord with peer-reviewed
> evaluations every five years.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
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