RootsWeb: APG-L Re: [APG] teaching and copyright

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Archiver > APG > 2009-08 > 1249997032

From: Jeanette Daniels <>
Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:23:52 -0700 (PDT)
References: <817913.86024.qm@web31604.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A80DDB1.6090206@gmail.com><0F55F7FA393943FB905258663B201A74@acer511eba12df><576338.13808.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <576338.13808.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

APG list members, It looks like the email is acting up again. My original email has disappeared and the correction that makes no sense has appeared. Here is the complete email with correction below: APG List members, I think it would be good to actually look at a tweet that has been rewritten to make more sense. I don't use tweets and I think that several have been talking about something they have NEVER done, used, or seen. This link will take you to a genealogy tweet from the recent BYU Conference held the very end of July. http://ancestryinsider.blogspot.com/2009/08/family-history-and-dna-testing.html Remember, this isn't the original and that the order of topics had to be changed to make more sense. Jeanette ________________________________ From: Jeanette Daniels <> To: LBoswell <>; Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17:14 AM Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright APG List members, I need to correct a sentence in my last email. "I don't use tweets and I think that several have been talking about something they have done, used, or seen." should say, "I don't use tweets and I think that several have been talking about something they have NEVER done, used, or seen." Jeanette ________________________________ From: LBoswell <> To: ; Ray Beere Johnson II <> Cc: APG Posting <> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:10:52 AM Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright Excellent summary of the main concerns, couldn't agree more. The only thing I would suggest is that if uses aren't found for twitter then it's more likely because the vast majority of those in the genealogy field simply aren't experienced enough with the medium to use it creatively. As more formats come online, it will be come more the norm even for those of us who prefer the old formats. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie King" <> To: "Ray Beere Johnson II" <> Cc: "APG Posting" <> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [APG] teaching and copyright > There are two points here - one is the folks who are complaining about > the twitterers not paying attention to their lectures and not making eye > contact. Most accomplished twitters on a mobile device aren't even > looking at a keyboard. Ask any kid to text (which is done just like > twittering when done from a phone) and most of them can do it with the > phone under their school desks. So actually the note taker is probably > paying less attention and making less eye contact than many who twitter. > > The other point is that if someone is bound and determined to publish > your lecture - they are going to do it. They can get the notes in any > fashion they want. In this case I really believe it is more a case of > the author showboating, His blogs are much better than his twitter logs > are. Twitter and blogging are going to write some new case law but I > wonder if this whole discussion might not lead to some other thoughts. > Is there anything in any of the conference rules preventing this - and > if there is - does that prevent other legitimate uses of technology? > > Have copyright and digital law kept pace? (My personal guess is it has > not, but that is up to the courts.) > > Is it good or is it bad for those whose lectures are tweeted? Adrian and > I talked about this off list. Personally in the example he used, I would > want to really see the full lecture. I would want to know exactly what > kinds of browser troubles she is having with what online databases. How > she drills down for information because what was tweeted sure doesn't > get me anywhere. So it can work both ways. > > The ethics are a whole different can of worms. You can demand ethical > standards from those who are APG members or members of an organized > group. And while they should have some sense of ethics, how do you > demand it from independent genealogists? > > Personally, after using Twitter, my guess is it will be a fast passing > fancy for genealogy outside of asking for directions to a cemetery or > setting up a genealogy meeting. However, it does make one wonder about > the next use of technology in genealogy and how the organized genealogy > groups are going to keep up with it. Will they be proactive or reactive? > Unfortunately, my guess is it will be reactive and that means the horses > have already left the gate. > > Jackie King > > > > Ray Beere Johnson II wrote: >> --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Jackie King <> wrote: >> >> >>> I really see no difference between a person clicking away with their >>> fingers or someone scribbling furiously other than one is electronic >>> and one isn't. A person who is good at shorthand can probably take >>> better notes than any twitterer and probably will have a more accurate >>> verbatim text. So why is Twitter more of a problem than someone with >>> a steno notebook? >>> >> >> There are several points here which should be considered more >> carefully. True, _taking notes_ by electronic means is no different than >> using a pen and paper - but twittering is a form of _publication_. That >> does not mean all tweets are bad. But _any_ type of publication is >> essentially different from a steno notebook - at least until the owner of >> the notebook typesets their notes and publishes them. :-) >> Second, although I would agree that someone practiced in shorthand >> might be able to take fuller, more accurate notes than the _average_ >> computer user, shorthand is not the _average_ use of pen and paper, >> either. Anyone with good software, customised to their needs, and skilled >> in its use, could leave even shorthand experts in the dust. There are >> apps which will expand brief codes into words and phrases, for example. >> Then, of course, anyone using a laptop or netbook might have speech >> recognition software - or audio capture software - installed. >> There is _no_ way to be sure anyone with electronic equipment is not >> recording the entire lecture. It is just too easy to set things up to run >> in hidden mode, and to be triggered by a seemingly innocuous keystroke. >> Does that mean electronic note-taking should be banned? I can't say - >> that is up to the individual lecturer. But the possibility should at >> least be mentioned and considered. >> This does raise an interesting point, however. The _creator_ of any >> work automatically acquires copyright rights once it is established in >> fixed form. Does this mean that if someone recorded a lecture without >> permission, their placing it in fixed form would confer copyright rights >> on the lecturer? Or on the "creator" of the pirated copy? How would the >> law view this? (My gut says the lecturer would retain the copyright >> rights - but I am not a lawyer.) >> >> >>> I really have not made up my mind on Twitter. Because of my work I do >>> see some very valuable aspects to it. I also see problems - and a lot >>> of just plain wastes of time. >>> >> >> This is an excellent assessment of Twitter. It is a tool. A skillful >> craftsman can accomplish much of value with the same tool another might >> wreak harm with - and which most users would just waste their time >> fiddling around with. >> _That_ is why _all_ aspects need to be considered and discussed, to >> work out which uses might have an impact, what that impact might be, and >> how best to adapt. >> Ray Beere Johnson II >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > . > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message