AUS-CONVICTS-L ArchivesArchiver > AUS-CONVICTS > 2007-02 > 1172362273
Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Which James Dodd??
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:11:13 +1100
Dear Paddy and List
As my first reply to Paddy bounced from the list - so here is a
summary of the emails sent to him privately.
Civil registrations didn't start in NSW till 1856, so this is not a
marriage registration but copy from a parish register. These are
microfilmed and available free from most libraries in Australia and
many in NZ too. They will not contain any details regarding parents,
but you might be able to find next of kin as witnesses, sometimes how
long they were in the colony or the ship they came on.
If you would like a copy of NSW BDM certificates post 1856, then you
might like to know that transcriptions are available at close to half
the offical price from agents, the NSW has outsourced this service.
The one I use is
Other places to check are the 1837 census/muster - I have that on my
self so will get back to you on that.
The best site on the net for Port Jackson Convicts and were to find
see the right hand side half way down for the FAQ's and the Ticket of
Leave info and records worth checking. And of course the Claim a
Convict list to see if other have claimed them
You can get Ticket of leave via the Soc of Aust Genies
Always worth checking the world connect site on rootsweb too in case
others have been there before you..
The 1837 Convict Census has no ref for a James DODDS as an
individual, the only ref are for a James DODDS of Sydney as the
master for 3 convicts who arrived in the 1830s. As there were a
number of James DODDS (with and withoout an s) in the colony at the
time this may or may not be your bloke. I note that James and Mary
consistently occur as DODDS while the Norfolk arrival varies.
I wonder if this is Mary's death
V1839240 103/1839 DODDS MARY AGE 33
V18391291 102/1839 DODDS MARY AGE 33
and James could have remarried after this
V18433724 74B/1843 DODDS JAMES COOKE SOPHIA E JB (st Andrew's
Presbyterian) Not unusual to be at a different demonimation as this
faith had few ministers in the colony prior to the 1830s, so nearly
everyone was married as CofE in the early days.
Seems there are more than one James DODDS in the colony, have you
been able to proove that your one married Mary rather than James DODD
(no s from the Norfolk) who married Johanna QUANE in 1835?
The James DODDS bloke who married Mary LEISTER, neither of them nor
their children appear in the 1828 census (Not every record survived
from this time frame - so not all people were in the index) so I
doubt it is he who came on the Norfolk and is on the road gang - also
he didn't apply for permission to marry her - so he had to be out of
his sentence or arrived free to have married in 1825. He might be the
arrived free bloke who came on the Britomart in 1822 (see
www.records.nsw.gov.au for the Colonial Secretary index)..
You mention that Mary's father was George, however, just noticed on
the Col Sec indexes that the Mary LEISTER who married James DODDS is
the daughter of John not George.
1825 Sep 19
Affidavit re marriage of his daughter Mary to James Dodds (Reel
6028; 2/8305 p.163)"
I suspect she was underage and had to have consent...
WIth spelling variations this could be the father - but I am sure the
reel above would tell you more about him to confirm or deny this:
LESTER, John. Constable
1819 Jul 5
Re payment to of five pounds for his attendance at the Courts of
Justice (Reel 6054; 4/1758 pp.67, 67a)
On list of constables doing duty in Sydney and its environs
requiring slop clothing (Reel 6017; 4/5782 p.94)
Neither John nor George appear in the 1828 cenus - under any spelling
variation of LEISTER - I even checked all of those start with L! Just
in case Mary was staying with her father...
Lots of mystery from that time frame.
I have the book Sydney Burial Ground 1819 - 1901 and History of
Sydney's Early Cemeteries from 1788. by Keith A Johnson and Malcolm R
Sainty. The burial ground was moved in 1901 for Central Railway
station. Headstones were photgraphed much was transcribed. Burial re-
interments were kept so there are entries in various sections...
the Following DODDS appear:
Appendix 2 Re-Interment Register Presbyterian
The following permit was issued to A J DODDS G P O Box 1433 Sydney.
ref 777 Rook Pres sect 5C Nr 6744-6
Dodds Mary (Mrs) died 14/06/1859
Dodds, James died 03/10/1874
Dodds, Tom Winder died 29/02/1836
Appendix 1 Licenses to Bury & Butts
Applicant: Dodds, Alexander
Address: 150 Alberto Tce.
Deceased: James DODDS
Relationship: brother 74 years
Grave type: Enclosed
Lic date: 05/10/1874
Plot: 9 1/2 x 10
Burials: 1 ad & 1 ch*
Remarks: 74/5715 with 78/6276
*I think this means that in addition to his brother James who was
buried 1874, the plot contained 1 ad & child already, ie Mary and Tom
Applicant: ROBLEY, Robert
Address: Traflagar Tce., Sth Kingston
Deceased: DODDS Sophia (Mrs)
Relationship: friend, 72 years
Grave type: Enclosed
Lic date: 20/07/1878
Plot: 9.6 x 10
Burials: 2 ad & 1 ch
Remarks: 78/6276 belonging to late husband James DODDS
So I gather your great grannie Ellen had an Uncle Alexander - I think
the ages add up for this - rather than this burial being for Ellen's
brother James and his wife and the plot being purchased by her
brother Alexander. This also lends weight to the second marriage of
James DODDS in 1843 to Sophia.
Here is the NSW BDM ref for young Tom's burial (as there are more
than two regsters there are often two index refs, same for births
during this early time frame)
V18361091 102/1836 DODDS TOM E INFANT
V183650 103/1836 DODDS TOM E INFANT
I have the SAG transcription of Rookwood Cemetery headstones and you
are in luck (It is one of the largest cemeteries in the southern
hemisphere so large it has its own post code)
James DODDS - 3 Oct 1874 died at Newtown aged 74 Presbyterian section
5c part 1 Row 28 grave 7244,7246
Mary DODDS - 11 Jun 1859 aged 33 (note this matches the age in the
1839 ref from NSW BDM online) Headstone fallen. Presbyterian section
5c part 1 Row 28 grave 7244,7246. (Note: I double checked the death
date is different than that in the book.)
Tom Winder DODDS died 29 Feb 18_6 accidently drowned aged 1 year and
9 months. Presbyterian section 5c part 1 Row 28 grave 7244,7246
Now A J DODDS also re-interred some others who may be connected to
your family, again from Appendix 2.
Page 138 ref 399, Rook Pres, Sect 1, Nr 27 A J DODDS, trustee Estate
of S D GORDON MLC, Box 1433 GPO. remarks with DICKSON
GORDON, William died 09/12/1851
GORDON, David James died 06/12/1853
GORDON, Mary Jane died 25/10/1854
GORDON, Alexander Peter died 04/01/1856
page 133 ref 399, Rook Pres, Sect 1, Nr 27 A J DODDS, trustee Estate
of S D GORDON MLC, Box 1433 GPO. remarks with GORDON
DICKSON, Eliza died 16/07/1854
Not sure that these are DODDS family connections - a bio if for the
Member of Parliment Samuel Deane GORDON and his two wives -
"Son of David Deane Gordon, farmer, and Mary Deane. Married (1) Eliza
Dickson on 22 October 1839, East Maitland, and had issue. Married (2)
Emily Fielding and had issue. Presbyterian."
Cant see a DODDS connection, but if you find one let me know and I
will check the Rookwood CD for this family too....
On 25 Feb 2007 at 9:26, Carol Wood wrote:
> Hi Paddy,
> I can't find either Mary Leicester or James Dodds arriving in
> Australia as convicts. Only Leicester lady was on the Lady Juliana
> and her name was Elizabeth or Isabella. Can't find the Britomart
> coming as a convict ship either. Obviously Leicester must have been a
> married name, do you have her maiden name?
> The proof you have that your Ellen Dodds was the child of James and
> Mary Dodds seems okay providing your g grandma Ellen lived to be 101
> and she gave these names on her marriage certificate as being the
> names of her parents. Is it a NZ marriage or an Australian one?
> There are quite a few people in Australia who "must have swum" and are
> not recorded anywhere. A lot of them are Irish as Irish women
> convicts were allowed to bring children with them but it was an
> informal arrangement and in a lot of cases the children were not
> recorded as being on the ship. Also the shipping records often say
> "and 35 in steerage" but never list the names so it might always
> remain a mystery. Did the parents James and Mary die in Australia or
> Carol Wood
> Brisbane Qld Australia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paddy cleary" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AUS-CON] Which James Dodd??
> > Hi Carol
> > Thank you for your reply and all the info. I think the James Dodds
> > who arrived on the 'Norfolk' is not my Dodds. There is another Dodds
> > operating in Sydney at the same time (even tho the Census says there
> > was only the Norfolk character) and the other chap is the
> > 'Britomart' one. He married Mary Leister and I feel I am sure they
> > are the right ones for me because 'James ....and Mary ...produced
> > Ellen Dodds in 1832 who was my ggrama buried in 1933 Auck. I have
> > certs. for Ellen's marriage and death - isnt that proof enough or
> > have I missed something? What I must do is find out about Mary
> > Leister, - big mystery gal - she received 'rations' in 1821 Muster
> > with George Leister and unnamed infant. Thanks for your help. Paddy
> > Cleary, Karori nz.