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From: "Ted HARRIS" <>
Subject: Re: Field Companys
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:23:11 +1000
References: <423D5E23.3050007@spitfire.com.au>


Keven's right in most things. Just a couple of points where his memory has
let him down.

(1) Facimus et framgimus is not now nor ever has been an official motto of
the RAE. Used unofficially yes, not never official.

(2) Arty (Artillery) do not have battle honours or Colours. They share
"Ubique" with the Gingerbeers (but Arty were awarded it first, and their
guns are treated as their Colours.

There is not now, nor has there ever been a situation where a Corps was
considered both an Arm and a Service. RAE were an Arm (fighting force).
RAEME (Royal Aust. Mechanical & Electrical Engineers) were a Service. Arms
and Services have disappeared from the "new" Army.

Water Transport is a WW2 innovation to RAE. Army is still on the blue water,
albeit with help from RAN. SAD (Ships Army Detachments) units work on the
troop transports and other RAN vessels as Army.

I doubt that any Engineer Unit ever "lowered" itself to the level where it
called itself a Battalion. Battalions are for Infantry and originally
Pioneers but NEVER for Engineers. Their equivalent is called a Regiment. We
now have Combat Engineer Regiments.

Cheers,
Ted Harris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keven's Mail" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: Field Companys


> Hi Folks; I have recently rejoined this link after a couple of years
> absence.
>
> My I add a few words to this discussion regarding RAE formations?
>
> I served in the RAE for a number of years (in CMF & ARA) and would like
> add that when I served in the mid 50s to late 60s the RAE was formed a
> little differently to Ted Harris description.
>
> Engineers had two motto s (apart from the badge motto) (1) Facimus et
> framgimus which means Make and Break. The formal motto Ubique,
> everwhere or in all places.
>
> Make and break of course signifies what Army Engineers do; make roads,
> airfields, buildings, bridges et al in advance and break them in
> withdrawal..
>
> Ubique signifies that the Engineers are where ever the Infanttry, Arty,
> Armd etc, go to fight battles. RAE has a unique position within the
> Australian Army it is both an Arm and a Service.
> Being an Arm means we were fighting soldiers and as a Service we did the
> most recognizable activity related to Army engineering. Engineers were
> attached to other units and fought along side the soldiers of those
> units. One consequence of this is that the RAE does not have battle
> honours like R Aust Inf, Armd Corps, Arty, etc. but we were there,
> hence Ubique.
>
> When I served the Engineer soldier was a fighter as well as a road-,
> bridge-, waterpoint, builder (in Const Sqn), he(now also she). He also
> provided water transport. Now only inland water transport because the
> RAN took on the open sea transport. I served for a while on an ocean
> going vessels of the RAE.
> The Engineers provided Stores and Supplies of a specific construction
> natre quite seperately to that provided by RAAOC (Ordnance).
>
> We were formed into Sections (6-7 personnel), Squadrons (4-5 Sect),
> Battalions (4-5 Sqn) & Regiments where and when necessary.
>
> My father served in the RAE in the 1920s and his rank was Artificer.
> When I served we were ranked Sapper (Spr), Lance-Corporal (Lcpl),
> Corporal (Cpl), Sergeant (Sgt), Ssgt (Staff-Sergeant) who was mostly in
> the Q-store in smaller units. Warrant Officer Class 2 (WO2) one of whom
> was the Sqn Sgt-Major (SSM); other WOs2 in units in which I served were
> Clerks of Works, Senior Clerks in larger establishments.
>
> I think I will stop there. I hope not to have been boring on my return
> to the web ring.
>
> cheers
>
> keven
>
>
>
>
> Ted HARRIS wrote:
>
> >The Engineers have many roles.
> >
> >" We make and we break" is an unofficial motto of the Gingerbeers.
> >
> >A Field Squadron would be involved in bridge building, road making,
blowing
> >things up and making basic buildings and other small engineering jobs.
> >
> >A Field Company would be attached to a larger Infantry unit to supply
> >engineering expertise.
> >
> >A Company is a very small unit. Several Companies make up a Squadron. A
> >Squadron is a small unit but obviously bigger than a Company. Several
> >squadrons make up a Regiment but rarely would a Regiment all be in the
same
> >place at the same time.
> >
> >Engineers rarely get any glory. ( I am a former Sapper as well as a
former
> >Infantryman). The books are written about the "fighting" units and the
> >support units like the Engineers are usually in such small numbers that
> >little is said about them except references in books about larger
(usually
> >Infantry) units.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Ted Harris
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "old address" <>
> >To: <>
> >Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:08 PM
> >Subject: Field Companys
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==== AUS-MILITARY Mailing List ====
> >Anzac Research
> >http://anzacresearch.tripod.com/index.htm
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________

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