AUS-MILITARY-L ArchivesArchiver > AUS-MILITARY > 2005-03 > 1111493012
From: "Don Tremethick" <>
Subject: Re: Field Companys
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:03:33 +1100
References: <423D5E23.firstname.lastname@example.org> <007c01c52dd6$13054190$0301010a@ted>
Re Arms and Services have disappeared from the "new" Army.
Regarding Arms, why do we still have CAT-C Combat Arms Training Centre at
Puckapunyal for specific Arms training, Artillery, Armour, Engineers &
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted HARRIS" <>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Field Companys
> Keven's right in most things. Just a couple of points where his memory has
> let him down.
> (1) Facimus et framgimus is not now nor ever has been an official motto
> the RAE. Used unofficially yes, not never official.
> (2) Arty (Artillery) do not have battle honours or Colours. They share
> "Ubique" with the Gingerbeers (but Arty were awarded it first, and their
> guns are treated as their Colours.
> There is not now, nor has there ever been a situation where a Corps was
> considered both an Arm and a Service. RAE were an Arm (fighting force).
> RAEME (Royal Aust. Mechanical & Electrical Engineers) were a Service. Arms
> and Services have disappeared from the "new" Army.
> Water Transport is a WW2 innovation to RAE. Army is still on the blue
> albeit with help from RAN. SAD (Ships Army Detachments) units work on the
> troop transports and other RAN vessels as Army.
> I doubt that any Engineer Unit ever "lowered" itself to the level where
> called itself a Battalion. Battalions are for Infantry and originally
> Pioneers but NEVER for Engineers. Their equivalent is called a Regiment.
> now have Combat Engineer Regiments.
> Ted Harris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keven's Mail" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Field Companys
>> Hi Folks; I have recently rejoined this link after a couple of years
>> My I add a few words to this discussion regarding RAE formations?
>> I served in the RAE for a number of years (in CMF & ARA) and would like
>> add that when I served in the mid 50s to late 60s the RAE was formed a
>> little differently to Ted Harris description.
>> Engineers had two motto s (apart from the badge motto) (1) Facimus et
>> framgimus which means Make and Break. The formal motto Ubique,
>> everwhere or in all places.
>> Make and break of course signifies what Army Engineers do; make roads,
>> airfields, buildings, bridges et al in advance and break them in
>> Ubique signifies that the Engineers are where ever the Infanttry, Arty,
>> Armd etc, go to fight battles. RAE has a unique position within the
>> Australian Army it is both an Arm and a Service.
>> Being an Arm means we were fighting soldiers and as a Service we did the
>> most recognizable activity related to Army engineering. Engineers were
>> attached to other units and fought along side the soldiers of those
>> units. One consequence of this is that the RAE does not have battle
>> honours like R Aust Inf, Armd Corps, Arty, etc. but we were there,
>> hence Ubique.
>> When I served the Engineer soldier was a fighter as well as a road-,
>> bridge-, waterpoint, builder (in Const Sqn), he(now also she). He also
>> provided water transport. Now only inland water transport because the
>> RAN took on the open sea transport. I served for a while on an ocean
>> going vessels of the RAE.
>> The Engineers provided Stores and Supplies of a specific construction
>> natre quite seperately to that provided by RAAOC (Ordnance).
>> We were formed into Sections (6-7 personnel), Squadrons (4-5 Sect),
>> Battalions (4-5 Sqn) & Regiments where and when necessary.
>> My father served in the RAE in the 1920s and his rank was Artificer.
>> When I served we were ranked Sapper (Spr), Lance-Corporal (Lcpl),
>> Corporal (Cpl), Sergeant (Sgt), Ssgt (Staff-Sergeant) who was mostly in
>> the Q-store in smaller units. Warrant Officer Class 2 (WO2) one of whom
>> was the Sqn Sgt-Major (SSM); other WOs2 in units in which I served were
>> Clerks of Works, Senior Clerks in larger establishments.
>> I think I will stop there. I hope not to have been boring on my return
>> to the web ring.
>> Ted HARRIS wrote:
>> >The Engineers have many roles.
>> >" We make and we break" is an unofficial motto of the Gingerbeers.
>> >A Field Squadron would be involved in bridge building, road making,
>> >things up and making basic buildings and other small engineering jobs.
>> >A Field Company would be attached to a larger Infantry unit to supply
>> >engineering expertise.
>> >A Company is a very small unit. Several Companies make up a Squadron. A
>> >Squadron is a small unit but obviously bigger than a Company. Several
>> >squadrons make up a Regiment but rarely would a Regiment all be in the
>> >place at the same time.
>> >Engineers rarely get any glory. ( I am a former Sapper as well as a
>> >Infantryman). The books are written about the "fighting" units and the
>> >support units like the Engineers are usually in such small numbers that
>> >little is said about them except references in books about larger
>> >Infantry) units.
>> >Ted Harris
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "old address" <>
>> >To: <>
>> >Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:08 PM
>> >Subject: Field Companys
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