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From: "Ross Sneddon" <>
Subject: Re: [PJ] Brickfield Hill and the Brickfields - How Obed Westremembered
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:41:00 +1000
References: <30bc53720805142114n6e78e23ar78f97c310aa6b28a@mail.gmail.com><3.0.6.32.20080515225914.00afbcb8@pop.ozemail.com.au>


Hi to Brickfield Hill researchers,

I do not know if this has any bearing on your research, however, I recall
many years ago working in Harris Street for the Dairy Farmers organisation
on a site which is now occupied by the ABC studios and is located quite
closely to the entertainment centre.

For many years it was stated in our organisation that the site was made up
of infill from "roadwork's further up the hill towards the Town Hall". I do
not know the accuracy of this statement but on a regular basis, the building
was very accurately surveyed as the Dairy Farmers building slowly sank into
the mud mire below. Towards the end of its life, the building had sunk so
much that the ground floor was closed down and the building eventually shorn
up with timber prior to the company's move to Pippita.

The site was then stated as being subject to both "local creek and tidal
influence" and the construction was built on an unstable base. The joke was
if we had a period of rain that when the tide came in and the creek was full
we could go for a swim on the ground floor. Some slight exaggeration. I am
told the ABC building which replaced it required some considerable work on
the footings to ensure stability.

Ross


----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [PJ] Brickfield Hill and the Brickfields - How Obed West
remembered


>
>
> Hello Matt,
>
>
>
> Excellent reference for this! Many thanks for Obed West's memoirs.
>
> Yes all the elements are there.
>
> That the Government brickyards were at the northern side of the Haymarket
> creek shows they didn't change much, if at all, from where marked as
> "Brickkiln - P" on the 1792 map of Sydney.
>
> Obed's memoir confirms that a creek ran along Hay Street towards Cockle
> Bay
> head (now infilled with the Sydney Entertainment Cenre on it, formerly
> renamed Darling Harbour). Still no name for the creek .. seems to have
> never been named.
>
> I thought it was likely always a pretty minor creek, and that is maybe why
> it was never named. However Obed refers to it as "a large creek".
>
> I'd never seen the name "Dickson's pond" before but his description, as a
> good hunting ground etc., can well indicate the ponded intertidal wetlands
> area that must then have then stood at the head of Cockle Bay.
>
> The reference to the street lowering by 12-15 ft on George Street at
> Liverpool Street is sure enough another reference of the genre "they cut
> the top off Brickfield Hill".
>
> Compare to Olga Pavlou's thesis on the origins and history of colonial
> brickmaking: "In fact, the first colonists would have beheld a view in
> which the Brickfield Hill was a mass if [sic] irregular rock 4.8 metres
> higher than now and the Haymarket Valley 4.8 metres lower."
>
> Olga is talking 16 ft and Obeid is talking 12-15 ft. Both are almost
> certainly referring to the same thing, street works in 1837. Olga expands
> on it more than Obed, however, going on to state that millions of tons of
> rock and soil were removed from the area of Castlereagh, Pitt and parallel
> streets and dumped into the valley below.
>
> By 1991 in Turbull's "Sydney - Biography of a City" this becomes "It was
> estimated that 1 million cubic feet of debris (much of it sandstone) was
> moved during the levelling of Brickfield Hill" [likely a copy of something
> earlier].
>
> And Gemmel (1986) put it as "The government decided to move the top of the
> hill ..".
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> John Byrnes
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>>From: "Matthew Hall" <>
>
>
>>> For what it's worth, I've always enjoyed Obed West's memoirs, and while
>>> index-less i flicked through tonight to see what it offered on the
>>> Brickfields and the hill question. Obed describes, from memory, Sydney's
>>> streets in sites in the 1820's and 1830's. This may also answer teh
>>> question of a stream that has been discussed.
>>>
>>> It contains an 1837 map of Sydney (by Caporn) - the Brick fields
>>> themselves are not indicated, though what we know as George St from the
> Old Burial
>>> Ground/St Andrew's Chuch south to Campbell St (where a cattle
>>> market/corn
>>> market(?) is marked) is titled as 'Brickfield Hill'
>>>
>>> p.17: Obed is describing George St, and he states "at the south-east
>>> corner was Liverpool Street, the first mile-stone was placed, and a
> watch-house,
>>> the furthest then out of the city. The levels of the street here have
>>> been
>>> considerably altered, the hill being cut down some 12 or 15 feet. To
>>> bring
>>> the house levels with the street, a storey was erected underneath".
>>>
>>> p.18 Further along George St now (heading south): "on the square now
>>> known
>>> as the Haymarket Square, were the Government brickyards where the bricks
>>> required for various Government estbalishments were made. To this
>>> square,
>>> the public pounds were removed from the position they occupied formerly
>>> near the present Town Hall. The first toll gate stood at the Haymarket,
> near
>>> the boundary of Jones' property, and then came to a large paddock up to
>>> Hay
>>> Street. Beyond that point there were no houses on George St, and it was
>>> there Dickson's Pond commenced, a large creek which ran along the
>>> present
>>> Hay St, entering it at about the corner of George and Hay Streets. The
>>> pond was extensive, spreading over part of the Ultimo Estate, and
> strange as it
>>> must sound to those who have only known Sydney in recent years, the pond
>>> was a noted place for all sort of game, ducks and teal. Many a good
>>> day's
>>> shooting has been had there."
>>>
>>> So there you have another description of the Brick Fields, Brickfield
>>> Hill, the leveling of a hill, and a pond/stream!
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> matt
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matthew D. Hall
>>>
>>> Washington, DC
>>>
>>> cell: +1 410 733 9444
>>> home: +1 202 370 6431
>
>
>
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