Archiver > AUTOSOMAL-DNA > 2012-01 > 1325959686

From: "Tim Janzen" <>
Subject: Re: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match withfew clues ?
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 10:08:06 -0800
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>

Dear Linda,
I think that Ann Turner already responded to most of your questions
earlier this morning so I won't address all of them now, but let me know if
there are still questions in your message below after you have read Ann's
and my messages. It is unfortunate that your child isn't willing to do a
23andMe or Family Finder test as those results would be very helpful for
you. My suggestion is that you continue to gently encourage them to be
tested and I would offer to pay for the test yourself. Assuming that your
child never does any autosomal DNA testing, then your next best approach
would be to do a 23andMe and/or Family Finder test on any siblings that you
have as well as at least one child from each of those siblings. If
feasible, I would also test the spouses of your siblings if those siblings
have children who are being DNA tested. This would allow you to phase the
data for a two parent/one child trio. If you have no siblings, then the
next best thing to do would be to test any first cousins you have and at
least one child from those first cousins.
I think that it would be wise for you and anyone else who hasn't
done any chromosome mapping up to this point in time to download my
spreadsheet at that shows the mapping I have done for my mom's DNA data up to
this point in time. The SNP data in the spreadsheet was phased using my
program at
ls. (See instructions at
Some additional explanatory information is at the bottom of the spreadsheet.
I haven't had time yet to map my dad's DNA from his cousins who have been
tested, but I plan to do that in the near future. As you review this
spreadsheet, it would probably be helpful if you refer to my mom's pedigree
chart at for
clarification. In my opinion, everyone should be doing chromosome mapping
similar to what I am doing. My spreadsheet currently only has the SNPs from
23andMe's version 2 in it, but I am planning to update this to include all
of the SNPs from 23andMe's version 3 chip in the near future as well. For
those of you who haven't created a spreadsheet such as this yet, I would
suggest that you include the SNPs from 23andMe's version 3 chip if you have
been tested with that chip or with the SNPs on FTDNA's Family Finder test if
you have done that test. You need Excel 2007 or a later version to create a
spreadsheet like this.
I would also like to make a few other comments about the
spreadsheet. If you review it carefully you will note that are some
segments that I haven't yet mapped to a specific ancestor and I have simply
added a comment such as "contiguous segment per James Cole" on row 512455
and adjacent rows. This means that James Cole has a long matching segment
(over 10 cMs or so) with my mom and I thus know that this segment came from
a matching ancestor, but I haven't yet been able to determine the ancestor
yet. In any case, knowing the boundaries of the contiguous segments such as
these is helpful because it means that there hasn't been a crossover in that
particular DNA segment going back at least as far as whenever my mom and
James Cole shared a common ancestor.

Tim Janzen

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Linda
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 5:34 AM
Subject: [AUTOSOMAL-DNA] SUBJECT: How do you work a 5 way FF match with few
clues ?

As Jim said, I believe I am beginning to understand how this works.

Thanks Tim for your very comprehensible explanations and to everyone for
the input.

For me, just now, I take away from this thread:

1. My results are results that are true IBD and would be
the best choice for working on in the immediate and foreseeable
future. Am I understanding this correctly?

2. So, my initial query would be resolved by requesting those other
four matches to upload their results to Is this correct?

3. If there was still a match with any of the four it would remain to
determine all other info such as from mother or father DNA and to look
for surnames in common.

Neither my husband nor myself have living parents and only one living
child who is not willing to do any DNA testing at all at this time. So,
unless new technology is found for working with atDNA am I correct in
thinking my best results would always be from a program such as GEDMATCH?

I am in constant awe of the folks who post here and freely share so much
knowledge. Thanks to all. Linda

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