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Archiver > BANAT > 1997-09 > 0873823830


From: "Henzel, Steve" <>
Subject: RE: Cunard/Port of Departure
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:50:30 -0700


Sheila/Kathy:

Try http://www.liv.ac.uk/~archives/cunard/chome.htm

This is the Cunard Archive page. Lists history of the line, names of
ships, when and where they traveled, some pictures of ships, info on
how/where to get more pictures.

--Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: [SMTP:]
Sent:Sunday, September 7, 1997 5:00 PM
To:
Subject:Cunard ships

Could someone tell me the name of the four passenger ships,
belonging
to the Cunard Line, which arrived at Ellis Island in 1884 and
1885?
Specifically, in the month of March, if it makes a difference.

Thanks.

Sheila
Searching Szelman, Selman, Takacs

-----Original Message-----
From:Kathi and Bob Reid [SMTP:]
Sent:Tuesday, September 9, 1997 3:52 AM
To:Henzel, Steve
Subject:Re: Port of Departure

In your letter you mention a Cunard article. I'm wondering
where a copy of
this might be available.

Kathi Reid

----------
> From: Henzel, Steve <>
> To: ''
> Cc: ''
> Subject: RE: Port of Departure
> Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 3:28 PM
>
> Robert,
>
> I didn't intend to skip draft evasion. Oversight. I knew
about it (it's
> mentioned in the Cunard article), but was focusing more on
"why leave
> through Hamburg/Bremen instead of Fiume" than "why leave at
all?"
> Obviously, if the answer to "why leave at all?" is draft
evasion (or any
> other form of flight), then you're probably not going to take
the state
> sponsored Cunard trip from Fiume.
>
> For people leaving for other than reasons of flight, I expect
that the
> motivation was more economic than anything else. I had two
> uncles-in-law who left via Fiume, while my direct relatives
made the
> trek to Hamburg. I expect that, for my gr-grandparents with
their six
> children, the difference in cost between the "competitive"
price at
> Hamburg vs. the monopoly price at Fiume more than made up for
the cost
> to get to Hamburg. It's hard to imagine a draft dodger
sneaking out of
> the country with a wife and six kids.
>
> --Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Robert Goetz [SMTP:]
> Sent:Monday, September 8, 1997 12:51 PM
> To:
> Subject:RE: Port of Departure
>
> Hmm.
>
> My family had one reason for emigrating - dodging the
draft. My
>
> great grandfather was very anti-military - not sure why,
but
> being
> from the old military border, he would probably have
served in
> the
> Grenz and I know that they were unruly and mutinous by
the time
> they
> were disbanded in the 1880s. He told his sons to leave,
> especially
> if they began working on the roads, which to him was a
sure sign
> of
> coming war. The oldest son remained, but each of his
other 3
> sons
> took off just before their 18th birthdays.
>
> I'm not sure about the others, but my grandfather left
> illegally. His brother-in-law "resigned" from the
> army (I figure he may have deserted) and in early 1912
> he and my grandfather went to Salzburg, where they were
able to
> get
> temporary work permits to enter Germany as skilled
laborers (my
> grandfather was a machinist with some carpentry skills).
Once
> there,
> they hopped a train for Bremen and thence a boat to New
York,
> thereby avoiding any bothersome emigration legalities.
>
> My great-grandmother and her daughters came some months
later
> via
> legal means which might mean via Fiume (I must check on
this).
> When
> my great-grandmother returned about 2 years later
(spring 1914)
> to
> settle some unfinished business, she was a bit delayed
returning
> -
> she heard the guns of August opening their bombardment
of
> Belgrade
> from her hometown of Mitrowitz just upriver. She
managed to get
> to
> Holland (must have been a wonderful story there!) where
she
> boarded a
> neutral ship to return to the US.
>
> > From: "Henzel, Steve" <>
> > To: "'Craig A. Windt'"
<>,
> > "'Frank Scharf'"
> > <>
> > Cc: Banat Mailing List
<>
> > Subject: RE: Port of Departure
> > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:38:36 -0700
>
> > Frank, Craig,
> >
> > I don't know if you've received any other responses on
this.
> Your two
> > questions are related.
> >
> > From what I've been able to learn, the primary reason
for
> going to the
> > US via Germany was freedom of choice. The Hungarian
> government passed a
> > law in 1904 that restricted emigration, such that
citizens
> could only
> > leave via Fiume; furthermore, emigrants to the U.S.
could only
> travel
> > via Cunard to the Port of New York (Ellis Island).
> >
> > The reasons were simple: by granting a monopoly to
Cunard,
> they could
> > control the prices (i.e., jack them up), and the
higher cost
> of
> > transportation served as an indirect throttle to
emigration.
> Cunard had
> > two motives: the obvious economic one, and a
xenophobic one.
> The latter
> > was a little byzantine. US Customs law mandated that
common
> carriers had
> > to return undesirable immigrants (sick, infirm,
felons, etc.)
> to their
> > last point of embarkation. Curnard, and other British
> carriers, were
> > running passengers from the continent, to
> Plymouth/Southampton, and
> > thence to the U.S. The return route was also via
England. So,
> the
> > undesirables were getting off in Plymouth. The
agreement
> between
> > Hungary and Cunard ensured that undesirables were
returned to
> Hungary,
> > and not Merrie Olde England. God Save the King.
> >
> > For more detail on this, see
> > http://iarelative.com/hung1903/chap_14a.htm.
> >
> > Also, Fiume, which was Hungary's port on the Adriatic,
is now
> the city
> > of Rijeka, in Croatia. It's on the Istrian peninsula.

> >
> > Craig, my great-grandparents followed a similar route
to your
> family's
> > (through Hamburg, instead of Bremen, though). My
> understanding is that
> > Banaters had to return to their native town in
Germany, and
> then book
> > passage to the US.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:Craig A. Windt
[SMTP:]
> > Sent:Sunday, September 7, 1997 8:39 PM
> > To:Banat Mailing List
> > Subject:Port of Departure
> >
> > My gg grandfather, Peter Wind, lived in
Rekasch
> before
> > coming to the U.S. in
> > 1906. When he came here, he left from Bremen in
> Germany. Was
> > that common to travel
> > so far across land into another country to come
to the
> U.S.?
> > Anyone have any ideas
> > why he may have gone there instead of leaving
from one
> of the
> > Austrian ports on the
> > Adriatic?
> > Thanks in advance for your input.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Craig Windt
> >
> >
> > Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
> > http://www.mailexcite.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:Frank Scharf [SMTP:]
> > Sent:Saturday, September 6, 1997 3:15 PM
> > To:
> > Subject:Banat>Italy>USA ???how
> >
> > Hello All
> > I'm about to put some flesh on the musty old
bones of my
> dead
> > from
> > Banat.
> > What was the most common way to travel from the
> Hun,Croat,Serb
> > border
> > area to Italy?
> > Both of my grandparents left, one from Crvenka
fall of
> 1909,
> > the other
> > from Dakovo spring of 1912, and took a ship from
Italy
> to the
> > USA.
> > Does anyone have any information on the trip to
the
> coast of
> > Croatia?
> > I'm sure it was a common route.
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
> > Frank Scharf
> > Clovis Ca
> >
> >
> =====================================================
>
> Robert Goetz VTLS Inc.
> VTLS Sales Support1800 Kraft Drive
> Blacksburg, VA 24060
> USA
>
> =====================================================

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