BANAT-L Archives

Archiver > BANAT > 2003-06 > 1054677227


From: "Fran Matkovich" <>
Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Re: Life, Discipline and Work...Adding My "Two Cents Worth"...
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:04:10 -0500
References: <20030531.212517.652.55.jerellie@juno.com>


My father used the razor strap once or twice. After that, all he had to do
is threaten to use it. That's how well it worked!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Quint" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Re: Life, Discipline and Work...Adding My "Two Cents
Worth"...


> Hi,
> I can vouch for the punishment, my mother told stories of getting beaten
> with the razor strap for every little infraction. so once the children
> stole it and buried it, but her father just bought another on.
> Ellie
>
> On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 00:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Maria Loncar <>
> writes:
> > Bob,
> >
> > Similiar punishmnet was meted out in other places in those days. I
> > am in my early seventies, and I remember my mother once making me
> > kneel on dried peas for 10 minutes or so facing the wall in a
> > corner. To be fair to her she must have been at the end of her
> > tether as I was a handful in those days. I imagine that she only did
> > what she herself experienced as a child. My father on the other hand
> > always tried to talk sense into us.
> >
> > At elementary school standing in the corner was the punishment. That
> > was a lot better than one teacher who had the nasty habit of pulling
> > a tuft of hair close to the roots.
> >
> > Carol
> >
> > wrote:
> > The recent dialogue regarding this subject has interested me
> > greatly. Harsh
> > treatment of children did not end with relocation to the U. S.
> >
> > I can remember, as a youngster, being very much afraid of BOTH sets
> > of my
> > grandparents. How does this instinctive "feeling" of fear develop in
> > a small
> > child? Not by accident...
> >
> > My mother told stories of how harsh her father was to her and her
> > siblings.
> > When she, as a child, in their family of ten, would commit an act,
> > interpreted
> > by her father, as a transgression, she was forced to kneel on corn
> > cobs for
> > long periods of time! There were other similar punishments, equal to
> > or
> > greater in severity.
> >
> > I'm not aware of any specific discipline meted out by my Dad's
> > mother and
> > father, but there seemed to be a general aura of "meanness" that I
> > felt when I
> > was around them. This feeling never left me until well after I was a
> > teenager.
> >
> > When my mother was in elementary school in Akron, the principal of
> > her school
> > visited her father, with a recommendation that my mother be allowed
> > to attend
> > an art school in Cleveland based upon her inherent artistic ability.
> > My
> > grandfather threw him off the farm. Girls did not have time for such
> > silliness!
> >
> > My mother was not allowed to attend school beyond the eighth grade.
> > Children
> > needed to be at home to help with the farm work. This work, on a
> > "truck
> > farm" in the Akron "muck", included putting out onion sets early in
> > the spring
> > during cold weather, while on your hands and knees, in the wet soil.
> >
> > One more thing: The girls had little or no "value" as family
> > members, only
> > the two male siblings. Eventually, the home farm was left as an
> > inheritance to
> > them only. (And, therein, lies another tale!)
> >
> > Thus, was the way of life in the Banat perpetuated in the U. S. by
> > my
> > grandparents.
> >
> > Later in life, there was a brighter side, at least for my mother.
> > After my
> > mother (and father) had retired to Florida, my wife and I stopped by
> > a local
> > art shop and purchased some art supplies for her. You would not
> > believe how her
> > artistic ability blossomed, once again! In due course, she was asked
> > to
> > participate as an instructor at the small, local college, and was
> > approached about
> > painting a mural on one of the college's building walls.
> >
> > Every relative; brothers and sisters, including all in-laws;
> > children; nieces
> > and nephews; all received oil paintings from her. She became very
> > prolific
> > in several mediums, including charcoals, not just oils.
> >
> > After a radical mastectomy, that essentially ruined her right arm
> > and hand,
> > she learned to paint with the left, and continued her artistic
> > endeavors until
> > her death.
> >
> > Just a little insight to add to those memories of Banat carried to
> > the U. S.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > X-Message: #12
> > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 23:42:18 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Maria Loncar
> > To:
> > Message-ID: <>
> > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Letter from home
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > Those were different times and punishment was readily meted out.
> > Corporal
> > punishment was very much the norm... spare the rod and spoil the
> > child...
> > My father was born in 1903 and was orphaned by age 9. His maternal
> > uncle (the
> > only one willing to take in the 3 orphaned boys) was a very harsh
> > man who
> > beat the boys frequently. They had to deliver the baked goods early
> > in the
> > morning before going to school. If my father did not bring the
> > correct amount of
> > money he was beaten severely. He kept running away, and eventually
> > ended up in an
> > orphanage in Budapest. My father never showed much interest in his
> > Bachka
> > relatives until much later in life.
> >
> > Life in those days was very hard and it is easy for us to be
> > judgmental.
> > Older friends from different countries tell me that they had to turn
> > over all
> > their earnings to their mothers, who then gave them an allowance out
> > of their
> > own earnings. When I lived in Britain decades ago I was amazed at
> > the
> > complaints by 'working class' women when their sons were about to
> > get married and so
> > they were going to lose the boarding money from their sons. They
> > never seemed
> > to complain about their daughters getting married. ;-)
> >
> > Carol
> >
> > wrote:
> > Robert indicates that surely the parents were not hardhearted. i'm
> > not so
> > sure about that and am curious and would like to know if anyone
> > might have some
> > particular insight into the level of discipline that might have been
> > meted (?)
> > out to the banat offspring, particularly the sons. my grandfather
> > was born in
> > the banat in the 1880s and my father, the first son in 1906. my
> > father and two
> > of his 4 brothers stuttered and stammered in their speech all their
> > lives,
> > something which may have been attributable to harsh treatment at the
> > hands of
> > their father which i know was the case. was my grandfather an
> > especially coarse
> > individual in this aspect of his character or was harsh discipline
> > the norm in
> > the culture? Anyone??? my hide is thick enuf to accept that my
> > grandfather
> > was outside of the mainstream if that is the preponderance of
> > opinion. be that
> > as it may, i suspect that the households were very structured with a
> > good deal
> > of punishment given out on a regular basis.
> >
> > regarding primogeniture and obligations of the eldest sons to the
> > family...my
> >
> > father turned in almost all his wages (from hanging wallpaper) to
> > his parents
> >
> > until shortly before he got married in 1931 and also never finished
> > high
> > school.
> >
> > paul kornberger in st louis, missouri
> >
> >
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