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Archiver > BANAT > 2003-12 > 1072708293


From: Jason Ulitschan <>
Subject: [BANAT-L] Re: BANAT-D Digest V03 #400
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:31:56 -0600
In-Reply-To: <200312251900.hBPJ01qJ004858@lists5.rootsweb.com>


on 12/25/03 1:00 PM, at
wrote:

>
> BANAT-D Digest Volume 03 : Issue 400
>
> Today's Topics:
> #1 [BANAT-L] How were orphaned childr [J and B Henry <.]
> #2 Re: [BANAT-L] How were orphaned ch []
> #3 [BANAT-L] RE:How were orphaned chi [J and B Henry <.]
> #4 Re: [BANAT-L] How were orphaned ch ["Susan Williams" <swilliams1200@co]
> #5 [BANAT-L] Merry Christmad Fun ["David Kemle" <>]
>
> Administrivia:
> Support information along with other pertinent instructions can be found at
> http://www.banaters.com/banat/MLInstructions.asp?Category=ML&Subcat=MLInstr
>
>
> ______________________________
>
> From: J and B Henry <>
> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 6:49 PM
> To:
> Subject: [BANAT-L] How were orphaned children recorded?
>
> Hi,
> I have a few questions, please.
>
> Were records kept when orphaned children were taken in by other families?
> If so, how was it recorded?
> And where would it be recorded? (church records, tax lists, etc)
> Would their surnames be changed?
>
> What about cases when the father died and the mother couldn't care for her
> children by herself.
> Would they be given to other families to raise?
> Or just sent to other families to work for wages?
>
> How would this be recorded in records?
> Would any notations be made to explain this situation?
>
> Thanks for any assistance to this query. I look forward to your reply.
>
> Beryl
>
> ______________________________
>
> From:
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 2003 2:58 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] How were orphaned children recorded?
>
> In a message dated 12/24/2003 7:53:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> << I have a few questions, please. Beryl >>
>
> Beryl
>
> All of your queries are good questions -- but, it would be helpful if you
> could identify the "when and where" associated with them. Are you asking
> about a
> specific Banat village? a Danube Swabian village elsewhere? or practices here
> in USA in early 1900s for example? Since the focus of your queries is on
> "recording", it is possible that practices or policies regarding this aspect
> might vary from place to place and time to time. My own experience in looking
> at
> thousands of church record entries in old Hungary is that nothing special was
> ever recorded about children who lost BOTH parents before adulthood. I have
> cases of females whose marriage records show parents that were not their birth
> parents, and my assumption is that they were "taken in" by godparents or
> others. I have one example of marriage record in 1750s where a female is
> simply
> listed as "orphan" -- no other info. I have numerous examples where both
> parents died (during cholera outbreak in 1830s) leaving young to early teen
> children
> -- but the church books say nothing about what happened to the kids likely,
> because there was no reason to record such things. I've not identified
> examples where the name of orphans changed to that of the family who
> supposedly took
> them in -- (the "taking in" is a presumption from who was listed as parents in
> the later marriage record.)
>
> I'm certain that others will have different examples as well.
>
> There were orphanages here and there -- associated with the church usually.
> I think the time and place is important, because the manner in which "property
> rights" were handled would have varied from place to place, and over time as
> serfdom was abolished as well. I don't think there was any *universal*
> practice throughout the entire area of Danube Swabian historical habitation.
>
> Regards
> Linda
>
> ______________________________
>
> From: J and B Henry <>
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: [BANAT-L] RE:How were orphaned children recorded?
>
> Thank you for your replies, Vladimir and Linda. I appreciate your knowledge
> on the subject.
>
> Yes, Linda, you're correct. I forgot to add the relevant information (time,
> place, etc) although I
> do find the general information on the subject to be beneficial in
> understanding the situations that
> faced our ancestors. They were extremely trying times to live for a full
> family (2 parents and
> children) to face without having children orphaned after a tramatic loss of
> their caregivers and
> loved ones.
>
> But here is the relevant information. The time would have been 1850 - 1860 in
> the Banat. The
> particular village I'm looking at is Lenauheim (Csatad, Schadat) although I'm
> beginning to think
> that it could have been another village in the area.
>
> My gr-grandfather, Peter GEHL, was a younger child of the family. He was born
> 1850 in Csatad. I have
> no documentation of this. I have only family stories to work with. I was
> told his father, (Nicolas
> or Matthias) died leaving his wife and family. His wife, Elisabeth (maiden
> name FUCHS) married her
> second husband, whose surname sounded like "TAUDNER".
>
> One story was that the younger children were given to other families to raise.
> Why? I don't know.
> Does this even make any sense? Wouldn't a remarried couple take into their
> home all of their
> children? Would appreciate any insights on situations such as this.
>
> Another story is that a family took him in who had the same name as them but
> there was no known
> relationship between the family and the children.
>
> So, this is where my questions come in. Any other input would be appreciated.
>
> Beryl
>
> ______________________________
>
> From: "Susan Williams" <>
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 2003 9:56 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] How were orphaned children recorded?
>
> I can't believe I'm reading the list on Christmas Day -- but I guess I had a
> few spare minutes before heading out for my holiday visit. Here is the
> experience for my own family. My family was from Glogowatz and Ujpanat,
> Hungary. My grandfather was essentially orphaned at the age of six. I
> have not found a record of death for his mother but family story is that she
> died.
> We knew he went to live with another family. Now that I have read the
> church records, I have learned he went to live with his godparents. His
> younger sister went to another family and maybe another city - Temesvar. I
> can only assume that she may have gone to her godmother. I have no way of
> knowing if there were notations at the church - I don't think so.
>
> Later in reading family records I found my grandmother's first cousin,
> Magdalena Schlee and Magdalena's husband, Paul Schlee to be the family left
> behind when a young child died in the early 1900's. I believe the child's
> surname was Schlechter. I don't believe the birth records are available
> for that child so I don't know if they were the godparents.
>
> You do raise an interesting question though genealogically. The question
> being whether a child taken in by another family would "adopt" that families
> surname. My best guess would be no - they would keep their birth name.
> Actually that is a question for me on my husband's side of the family. His
> grandmother(Italian) was supposedly given to neighbors in their town of
> Bari. The family left for America in the late 1890's -- and we don't know
> if the maiden name is her birthname. We also have no idea why she was given
> away. It could have been economic - giving her a better life.
>
> I know I am rambling a bit but it just brought another thought. I have a
> dear friend (Irish) who was sent with one of her sisters to live with an
> aunt and uncle in America -- again economic - the family was too poor to
> keep them. How sad -- yet what a gesture to be able to give a child away,
> knowing you might never see them again yet knowing they would have a decent
> life.
>
> This should remind of all the many sacrifices our ancestors made so that we
> could having the freedom to be researching our family histories life
> his -- in addition to our many other blessings.
>
> A Merry Merry Christmas to All. Susan
>
> ______________________________
>
> From: "David Kemle" <>
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 2003 11:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: [BANAT-L] Merry Christmad Fun
>
> http://web.icq.com/friendship/browse_page/0,,7944,00.html
>
I'm Looking for Information on a Anton Ulitschan from Josedorf.

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