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Archiver > BANAT > 2005-08 > 1123033112


From: "Linda McKenna" <>
Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:38:32 -0400
References: <LPBBKOBAINFKPGKFMEFAAELKCLAA.gabriele.rudinger@aon.at>


WELCOME GABI
Am very interested in what you might tell of your grandparents lives in
the Banat, as they are sure to reflect what my ancestors' lives were like.
My ancestors came from Grossjetscha and Kowatschi. I have quite a bit
from Grossjetscha, but very little from Kowatschi. My grandfather Johann
BAUTZ (PAUTZ) and family lived in Kowatschi. I know very little of them,
where his parents, brother and sister went.
Please share your grandmother's stories.
Linda Bautz McKenna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriele Rudinger" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership


> Hello list members,
>
> I am relatively new to your wonderful list, and this topic is just so
> fascinating that I want to contribute for the first time.
>
> I live in Europe, more exactly in Austria, which has a large number of
> Donauschwaben. My ancestors used to live in the village of Erdewik in
> Syrmia. They had to leave their homes in 1944, at that time my father was
5
> years old.
>
> Even though I was born almost 30 years later, I did grow up in an
enormously
> Donauschwabian environment. Many Germans from Erdewik remained close to
the
> place where they first went.
>
> My childhood is therefore full of the Donauschwaben tradition. We had a
> "Sommerkich" (Sommerk├╝che, or "summer kitchen") out in the yard; the
cooking
> was mainly Donauschwabian; old women in long, black skirts wearing a scarf
> (with the ends sticking out in a perfect horizontal) were absolutely
normal;
> I grew up "bilingual": Austrian and Donauschwaben dialect, often having to
> translate for my friends who didn't understand what my grandmother said;
the
> annual Erdewiker Treffen (meetings) where us kids were dressed up and
> enjoyed the then Schilling and German Mark because we were so sweet; and
> there are many other things like that.
>
> When I was about 15 I first got interested in genealogy and quizzed my
> grandmother endlessly; fortunately, she loved talking about "dahoom"
> (daheim, at home), as she still said after 60 years. She died at the age
of
> 96, and we spent a lot of time with me asking questions about how life
was.
> So I think that I have a picture of their life, maybe more than that of my
> other grandparents who had always lived in Austria.
>
> My father's generation, the 60+, sometimes still use their original
dialect
> when they are speaking with each other, but for my generation,
> Donauschwabian heritage has a very very low profile. We don't speak the
> dialect, and after 60 years in Austria, we fully identify with this
country.
> But I do notice that more and more people my age who are of Donauschwaben
> descent start getting interesting in doing some research.
>
> As I said in the beginning, I am still at the start, trying to find out if
> any records exist for Erdewik, whether my ancestors lived in other
villages
> too, etc. Beginner's tasks.
>
> Being a German native speaker, I'd love to help out if somebody needs some
> translation done. It may take some time as these days it's very busy, but
I
> think that language should never be a barrier.
>
> Hope that I didn't ramble too much...
>
> Gabi.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Frank Dornstauder [mailto:]
> > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:56 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
> >
> >
> > Hi Deborah,
> >
> > The discussion on our Banat ancestors is very interesting. My
> > family came to
> > Canada in 1897. My father was 10 years old. They eventually
> > homesteaded and
> > began to build their lives in Canada.
> >
> > From a homesteaders point of view they didn't have much time to dwell on
> > their past. It was a hard living and all energy went into survival and
> > building for the future. They continued with their language but
encouraged
> > the next generation to learn English and adapt to North American
> > ways. I can
> > understand this mentality because in their previous experience in
> > the Banat
> > they were usually in a minority, (except in their villages) and subject
to
> > variety of ethnic and political tensions and biased treatment. They were
> > often regarded as interlopers and treated as such. So, it would be
natural
> > for them to assume a low profile in their newly adopted land. As the old
> > saying goes, "keep your eyes open and your tail down"! Why
> > attract attention
> > to your presence and "differentness"?
> >
> > My parents and relatives did speak a little of the Banat when they got
> > together for their Sunday dinners but this was not upper- most in their
> > minds. They spoke German, and the younger school age children spoke
mainly
> > English. It was not unusual when speaking to our elders that the
> > conversation was in two languages, the elders speaking German the
children
> > speaking English. This did not seem unusual for us because in the later
> > years the elders understood English and the children understood German.
> >
> > My family and other relatives had contact with some of their
> > cousins in the
> > Banat immediately after WW11. They were living in the prison camp in
> > Rudolfsgnad and some correspondence occurred at that time. I can
> > remember my
> > family making "relief packages" for them and sending basic food such as
> > flour, rice and clothing. This was in 1947/47. We lost track of them
after
> > that. I'm not sure why.
> >
> > Back to the first point, I think that our North American Banaters just
> > wanted to left alone to pursue a decent living and to be able to
> > live their
> > lives in peace and harmony with the broader community. The best way to
do
> > this was to "blend in". Of course, one of the consequences is
> > that the next
> > generation looses the language, and the loss of language is very quickly
> > followed by the loss of tradition and culture.
> >
> > This is only my perspective. I can only speak from my family's
experience.
> > I'm sure others will have different points of view.
> >
> > Frank D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard & Deborah Owens" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
> >
> >
> > > Dear Scott and Dave,
> > > I have enjoyed this discussion very much. My son is studying German
and
> > I'm
> > > going to start my daughter in it too (we homeschool) so I was
> > wondering if
> > > you, Dave, can give us the address for signing up to the German
> > Banat List
> > .
> > > Dave, you mentioned that the North American Listers are more chatty
than
> > our
> > > German cousins. Do the folks there avoid it because it is
> > annoying or is
> > > it unmannerly in Europe? I would love to connect with family in
Europe.
> > I
> > > think we in the US and Canada feel like a big family , at least
> > I do. I am
> > > related to a number of folks on the List and I enjoy seeing everyone's
> > > thoughts and what they have found. Pbear, in another message on this
> > topic,
> > > said that his folks avoided discussing the Banat. I found this
> > to be the
> > > case in my family. Based on names and cities, I believe that a fair
> > number
> > > of my relatives died in the camps during the ethnic cleansing
> > after WWII.
> > > I am sure that my people did not mention this because it was just so
> > > painful.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Deborah
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dave Dreyer" <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 1:07 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
> > >
> > >
> > > > Scott;
> > > > Please see below;
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Scott Aaron" <>
> > > > To: <>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 5:29 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Dave,
> > > >
> > > > This touches on something I've been curious about for
> > > > awhile. Do the Banat researchers in Germany seem to
> > > > greatly outnumber those in the U.S. and Canada?
> > > >
> > > > I would guess there are around 700 AKdFF members, the great
> > bulk of them
> > > > living in Germany.
> > > > Are many/most of them also BANAT-L members as well,
> > > >
> > > > Very few of them are Banat List members. Of course, here there is a
> > > > language problem on the other end. Younger or professional German
> > > > Banaters almost always are English proficient or at least have
reading
> > > > ability. The older Banaters language abilities tend to
> > cover, Romanian,
> > > > Hungarian, Serbian and sometimes Latin.
> > > > Most Banaters have an interest in America and Americans and I
> > often hear
> > > > from the family history researchers there about an great uncle, a
> > > > grandfather or great grandfather who had spend some time in America.
> > This
> > > > is reasonable since about 20% of preWWI Banaters left for America.
> > > > As you may know there is a German Banater list and it's character is
> > very
> > > > different from the Banat List. It is much less chatty than
> > the American
> > > > group and is devoted totally to family history matters with
> > no attention
> > > > to cultural or historical aspects. They all grew up with the
culture
> > and
> > > > history so mostly it is not a mystery to them.
> > > >
> > > > or is
> > > > there a substantial disconnect between the German
> > > > researchers and those in the U.S./Canada and the
> > > > resources they primarily use...(in addition to AKdFF)?
> > > >
> > > > The resources easily available to the two groups are very different.
> > > > There are relatively few FHCs in Europe. So we have readily
available
> > the
> > > > immense resources of the FHL.
> > > > I frequently get requests from German Banaters to check German KBs
> > because
> > > > I can readly get the film from Salt Lake whereas they have to
> > go to the
> > > > archives which holds the records which could be anywhere in
> > Germany. Of
> > > > course, the Banat microfilm is all available from the AKdFF in
> > > > Sindelfingen or the library of the Ifa in Stuttgart by interlibrary
> > loan.
> > > > But all this has little to do with finding data to cover the usual
> > record
> > > > gap. Although one does sometimes hear bad language there when one
> > starts
> > > > discussing the record gap that most of us here face it is
> > much easier to
> > > > find a bridge across the gap among German Banaters. Many German
> > Banaters,
> > > > especially those from Romania have family trees brought with them
when
> > > > they came to Germany, or if they had an interest in family history
> > before
> > > > leaving they could get access to records and fill out their
> > family tree
> > > > from local records. If one can find such a relative in Germany an
> > > > American researcher can tie into an established family tree.
> > > > In my own case I found a relative among the German
> > Banaters(in this case
> > > > not through the AKdFF) and somehow she knew the town in Germany
where
> > the
> > > > family origionally came from. This fact was not anywhere in the
> > > > literature. With this clue I was able to take the family
> > back to about
> > > > 1600. She had a lot of gaps in her knowledge of the family
> > and how she
> > > > knew this isolated fact is still a mystery to me. Nevertheless it
was
> > all
> > > > I needed to know to make extensive progress and I would have
> > never been
> > > > able to do it without her help..
> > > > Much of the discussion on the German AKdFF list centers around the
> > > > migration to Donauschwab areas from Germany. It should make them
> > > > appreciate the problems that North American Schwabs face in
> > working out
> > > > two migrations.
> > > > One find much more discussion of research problems in the Batscha
and
> > > > other Donauschwab areas in the AKdFF and on the AkdFF list than on
the
> > > > Banat LIST.
> > > >
> > > > To your point, I always wonder how much info I might
> > > > be missing out on simply because my German language
> > > > skills are basic at best, and I don't communicate
> > > > regularly with the researchers in Germany (outside of
> > > > the occasional "Google Translater-aided" e-mail).
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > AKdFF members get a booklet with the names and addresses of all the
> > > > members with the towns and surnames they are interested in.
> > This can be
> > a
> > > > basis of contact if one does not go to AKdFF meeting. Even though a
> > > > German contact does not read English the older ones always have a
> > grandkid
> > > > who is fluent and can translate. In such cases you are
> > likely to get a
> > > > reply in German but with the resources of the Banat LIST I would
think
> > you
> > > > can always get a translation from someone on the LIST.
> > > > Of course, there are no guarantees but I would hazzard that once you
> > > > overcome the language problems there are benefits of making personal
> > > > contacts with German Banaters. It might be useful if we
> > heard accounts
> > > > from other List members who have built rewarding relationships with
> > German
> > > > Banaters.
> > > > Hope I have not wandered too much and at least partly answered your
> > > > concerns. There are other aspects of this matter we could
> > discuss but,
> > > > for me, they will have to wait for tomorrow.
> > > > Dave Dreyer
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > > >
> > > > --- Dave Dreyer <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I would like to reinforce Guenter's comments.
> > > >> For many North American Banat researchers the lack
> > > >> of German language skills
> > > >> is a major obstacle in joining mainstream Banat
> > > >> research. The source
> > > >> materials in this area are all in German as are the
> > > >> experts in Banat
> > > >> research.
> > > >> The German Banaters via the Landmannschaft regard
> > > >> family history research a
> > > >> major part of the effort to document the history of
> > > >> some 7-8 generations of
> > > >> Donauschwabs in Southeastern Europe. We have seen
> > > >> the demise of this
> > > >> community, in the last 50 years under unpleasant
> > > >> circumstances, which
> > > >> includes forced deportation, outright mass killings
> > > >> and starvation. The
> > > >> Donauschwab way of life in SE Europe is gone and
> > > >> never will be reclaimed.
> > > >> Nevertheless the traditions and history of our
> > > >> ancestors in SE Europe, which
> > > >> is our heritage,
> > > >> can be documented so that the footprint of
> > > >> Donauschwabs in SE Europe can
> > > >> never be forgotten or ignored as some peoples and
> > > >> governments in this part
> > > >> of the world would prefer. Banat family history
> > > >> research is part of this
> > > >> documentation program. Joining the AKdFF is a
> > > >> major step in becoming part
> > > >> of this effort which advances the field as well as
> > > >> benefiting the individual
> > > >> researcher through an English version of the AKdFF
> > > >> journal.
> > > >> The AKdFF webpage at www.akdff.de is in English.and
> > > >> give clear instructions
> > > >> on how to join the organization. Those Banat LIST
> > > >> subscribers who want to
> > > >> support documentation of their Donauschwab heritage
> > > >> as well as build closer
> > > >> contacts with German Banaters might want to consider
> > > >> AKdFF membership.
> > > >> Dave Dreyer
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "G├╝nter Junkers" <>
> > > >> To: <>
> > > >> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:21 AM
> > > >> Subject: [BANAT-L] Re: Paper on Castor discussions
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > all members of AKdFF and AKdFF-NA who paid their
> > > >> membership dues receive
> > > >> the
> > > >> > German version and the English translations of the
> > > >> Donauschwaebische
> > > >> > Familienkundliche Forschungsblaetter. Please
> > > >> support this group by
> > > >> becoming
> > > >> > a member and you will get the Forschungsblaetter
> > > >> for free by downloading
> > > >> > from our yahoo-list. Please support us!
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Guenter
> > > >> >
> > > >> > www.akdff.de
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > Gail Farmer wrote to Banat-L:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Would anyone know how I could get a copy of the
> > > >> paper published in the
> > > >> June
> > > >> > 1999 issue of the Donauschwaebische
> > > >> Famileinkundliche Forschungsblaetter,
> > > >> > which was the result of extensive discussions
> > > >> about the Castor, Alberta,
> > > >> > Canada homesteaders?
> > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ==== BANAT Mailing List ====
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> > > > published or redistributed in any form by a "FOR PROFIT" or
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> > > > organization. All publication requires the permission of each
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> > > > author.
> > > >
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> >
> >
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