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Archiver > BANAT > 2005-08 > 1123091707

From: "Richard & Deborah Owens" <>
Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 13:55:07 -0400
References: <> <013d01c59656$f02ad560$2d6a7743@D99J3Q21> <002c01c596ac$ff460f50$6601a8c0@Office> <00e101c596fd$5ebb4270$4f6a7743@D99J3Q21>

Hi Dave,
As always, I enjoy your letters and I do appreciate your reponse to my
questions. Your experience with this research gives you a depth of
experience that is most profitable for the rest of us. I have ordered a
film through the FHC in a record series called Anyakonyvek, apparently
church records in Hungarian and Latin. Have you ever delved into this
material and, if so, do you happen to know if anyone in the AKdFF is working
on a FB or Heimatbuch for Backi Jarak or Tiszakalmanfalva that will be made
available on CD or as a book? This is an area of high interest to me. If
no one else is working in this area at this time, is there someone in the
AKdFF that funnels research requests to members? As an AKdFF member from
North America, am I able to request that such research be initiated?

In steamy hot Tampa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Dreyer" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership

> Deborah;
> Please see below;
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard & Deborah Owens" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
> Dear Scott and Dave,
> I have enjoyed this discussion very much. My son is studying German and
> I'm
> going to start my daughter in it too (we homeschool) so I was wondering if
> you, Dave, can give us the address for signing up to the German Banat List
> .
> Go to;
> for some details on the AKdFF list. It is a closed list which means that
> you have to apply to the list administrator for subscribing. I just had a
> look at the above page and see that one has to be a AKdFF member to
> subscribe. I didn't realize this.
> Anyway, you can see some details of the list there and you can apply to
> Guenter Junkers, whose message initiated this whole discussion, for
> membership. Guenter is the administrator for the AKdFF list. Although
> the
> site says that the list is in German an occasional message in English
> should
> not be the end of the world. It will not be understood by those with no
> English skills nevertheless there are enough people there with English
> fluency that such a message could be profitable.
> Dave, you mentioned that the North American Listers are more chatty than
> our
> German cousins. Do the folks there avoid it because it is annoying or is
> it unmannerly in Europe?
> I would think that partly it is a reflection of national character. But
> there has to be more to it than that.
> Keep in mind that Europe is a much smaller place and people can get to
> annual HOG meetings fairly easily and for those interested they will see
> everyone from their home village and probably a lot of "cousins".
> Moreover
> as Gabriele points out she grew up among Landsleute in Austria and this is
> a
> reflection that refugees from the same village tended to settle in the
> same
> area when they relocated to Austria or Germany. One sees it here in the
> settlement pattern of Banaters who immigrated to North America, except for
> us it was 3-4 generations ago and assumilation has taken its toll in the
> intervening years where people tend to be more moble. Gabriele certainly
> has(or had) her own Tracht and marched in Erdewiker Kirwei Zug so the
> cultural customs are second nature to her. As a result there is not this
> big effort to build connections among Banaters in Europe that we go
> through
> because they still exist there.
> I would love to connect with family in Europe. I
> think we in the US and Canada feel like a big family , at least I do. I am
> related to a number of folks on the List and I enjoy seeing everyone's
> thoughts and what they have found.
> I would put it a bit differently about feeling like a big family. I think
> we are all taken up in this research and finding out that we come from a
> special and somewhat unique, one might even say exotic cultural group and
> this common search creates a certain sense of community among us.
> Pbear, in another message on this topic,
> said that his folks avoided discussing the Banat. I found this to be the
> case in my family.
> One hears this comment often but I wonder that such discussions were low
> proiotiry in the day to day living. in the new world. As I have noted
> before on the list, my Banat grandmother at the age of 6 came to North
> Dakota with her family in the winter of 1892. Her stories were of prairie
> fires, rustlers, bands of indians coming through the homestead and
> accounts
> centered around stock and the railroad(ND Banaters were tied to the
> Northern
> Pacific). Only once did I have the presence of mind to steer her
> conservation to Banat matters. The point is that her world was a long way
> physically and mentally from Mitteleurope and the close knit villages of
> the
> Heimat.
> Based on names and cities, I believe that a fair number
> of my relatives died in the camps during the ethnic cleansing after WWII.
> I am sure that my people did not mention this because it was just so
> painful.
> Most of us of age at the end of the war were not aware of the end of the
> ethnic Eastern European Germans communities. I don't remember it getting
> any attention in the newspapers at the time. If there was such news it
> was
> submerged in accounts of the Jewish camps and the general problems of
> gettting DPs returned or otherswise settled. Even today it is little
> known
> outside the Donauschwab community relative to the Jewish camps.
> Dave Dreyer
> Best Regards,
> Deborah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Dreyer" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 1:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
>> Scott;
>> Please see below;
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Scott Aaron" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 5:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] AKdFF membership
>> Hi Dave,
>> This touches on something I've been curious about for
>> awhile. Do the Banat researchers in Germany seem to
>> greatly outnumber those in the U.S. and Canada?
>> I would guess there are around 700 AKdFF members, the great bulk of them
>> living in Germany.
>> Are many/most of them also BANAT-L members as well,
>> Very few of them are Banat List members. Of course, here there is a
>> language problem on the other end. Younger or professional German
>> Banaters almost always are English proficient or at least have reading
>> ability. The older Banaters language abilities tend to cover, Romanian,
>> Hungarian, Serbian and sometimes Latin.
>> Most Banaters have an interest in America and Americans and I often hear
>> from the family history researchers there about an great uncle, a
>> grandfather or great grandfather who had spend some time in America.
>> This
>> is reasonable since about 20% of preWWI Banaters left for America.
>> As you may know there is a German Banater list and it's character is very
>> different from the Banat List. It is much less chatty than the American
>> group and is devoted totally to family history matters with no attention
>> to cultural or historical aspects. They all grew up with the culture and
>> history so mostly it is not a mystery to them.
>> or is
>> there a substantial disconnect between the German
>> researchers and those in the U.S./Canada and the
>> resources they primarily use...(in addition to AKdFF)?
>> The resources easily available to the two groups are very different.
>> There are relatively few FHCs in Europe. So we have readily available
>> the
>> immense resources of the FHL.
>> I frequently get requests from German Banaters to check German KBs
>> because
>> I can readly get the film from Salt Lake whereas they have to go to the
>> archives which holds the records which could be anywhere in Germany. Of
>> course, the Banat microfilm is all available from the AKdFF in
>> Sindelfingen or the library of the Ifa in Stuttgart by interlibrary loan.
>> But all this has little to do with finding data to cover the usual record
>> gap. Although one does sometimes hear bad language there when one starts
>> discussing the record gap that most of us here face it is much easier to
>> find a bridge across the gap among German Banaters. Many German
>> Banaters,
>> especially those from Romania have family trees brought with them when
>> they came to Germany, or if they had an interest in family history before
>> leaving they could get access to records and fill out their family tree
>> from local records. If one can find such a relative in Germany an
>> American researcher can tie into an established family tree.
>> In my own case I found a relative among the German Banaters(in this case
>> not through the AKdFF) and somehow she knew the town in Germany where the
>> family origionally came from. This fact was not anywhere in the
>> literature. With this clue I was able to take the family back to about
>> 1600. She had a lot of gaps in her knowledge of the family and how she
>> knew this isolated fact is still a mystery to me. Nevertheless it was
>> all
>> I needed to know to make extensive progress and I would have never been
>> able to do it without her help..
>> Much of the discussion on the German AKdFF list centers around the
>> migration to Donauschwab areas from Germany. It should make them
>> appreciate the problems that North American Schwabs face in working out
>> two migrations.
>> One find much more discussion of research problems in the Batscha and
>> other Donauschwab areas in the AKdFF and on the AkdFF list than on the
>> Banat LIST.
>> To your point, I always wonder how much info I might
>> be missing out on simply because my German language
>> skills are basic at best, and I don't communicate
>> regularly with the researchers in Germany (outside of
>> the occasional "Google Translater-aided" e-mail).
>> .
>> AKdFF members get a booklet with the names and addresses of all the
>> members with the towns and surnames they are interested in. This can be
>> a
>> basis of contact if one does not go to AKdFF meeting. Even though a
>> German contact does not read English the older ones always have a
>> grandkid
>> who is fluent and can translate. In such cases you are likely to get a
>> reply in German but with the resources of the Banat LIST I would think
>> you
>> can always get a translation from someone on the LIST.
>> Of course, there are no guarantees but I would hazzard that once you
>> overcome the language problems there are benefits of making personal
>> contacts with German Banaters. It might be useful if we heard accounts
>> from other List members who have built rewarding relationships with
>> German
>> Banaters.
>> Hope I have not wandered too much and at least partly answered your
>> concerns. There are other aspects of this matter we could discuss but,
>> for me, they will have to wait for tomorrow.
>> Dave Dreyer
>> Scott
>> --- Dave Dreyer <> wrote:
>>> I would like to reinforce Guenter's comments.
>>> For many North American Banat researchers the lack
>>> of German language skills
>>> is a major obstacle in joining mainstream Banat
>>> research. The source
>>> materials in this area are all in German as are the
>>> experts in Banat
>>> research.
>>> The German Banaters via the Landmannschaft regard
>>> family history research a
>>> major part of the effort to document the history of
>>> some 7-8 generations of
>>> Donauschwabs in Southeastern Europe. We have seen
>>> the demise of this
>>> community, in the last 50 years under unpleasant
>>> circumstances, which
>>> includes forced deportation, outright mass killings
>>> and starvation. The
>>> Donauschwab way of life in SE Europe is gone and
>>> never will be reclaimed.
>>> Nevertheless the traditions and history of our
>>> ancestors in SE Europe, which
>>> is our heritage,
>>> can be documented so that the footprint of
>>> Donauschwabs in SE Europe can
>>> never be forgotten or ignored as some peoples and
>>> governments in this part
>>> of the world would prefer. Banat family history
>>> research is part of this
>>> documentation program. Joining the AKdFF is a
>>> major step in becoming part
>>> of this effort which advances the field as well as
>>> benefiting the individual
>>> researcher through an English version of the AKdFF
>>> journal.
>>> The AKdFF webpage at is in English.and
>>> give clear instructions
>>> on how to join the organization. Those Banat LIST
>>> subscribers who want to
>>> support documentation of their Donauschwab heritage
>>> as well as build closer
>>> contacts with German Banaters might want to consider
>>> AKdFF membership.
>>> Dave Dreyer
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "G√ľnter Junkers" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:21 AM
>>> Subject: [BANAT-L] Re: Paper on Castor discussions
>>> > all members of AKdFF and AKdFF-NA who paid their
>>> membership dues receive
>>> the
>>> > German version and the English translations of the
>>> Donauschwaebische
>>> > Familienkundliche Forschungsblaetter. Please
>>> support this group by
>>> becoming
>>> > a member and you will get the Forschungsblaetter
>>> for free by downloading
>>> > from our yahoo-list. Please support us!
>>> >
>>> > Guenter
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > Gail Farmer wrote to Banat-L:
>>> >
>>> > Would anyone know how I could get a copy of the
>>> paper published in the
>>> June
>>> > 1999 issue of the Donauschwaebische
>>> Famileinkundliche Forschungsblaetter,
>>> > which was the result of extensive discussions
>>> about the Castor, Alberta,
>>> > Canada homesteaders?
>>> >
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