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From: "Rosina Schmidt" <>
Subject: a question on illegitmate children
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 21:22:28 -0700
References: <>

Eintrag in Bemerkungen: J. F. als Leiblicher Vater.

= entry under 'Notes'.

J. F. as natural father

An illegitimate child was back than the same way alleviate as it is today. Being alleviate 90 years ago was not such a stigma though, as 150 years ago. At that time an alleviate child could not own property, could not learn a trade, etc. It was mainly to try to prevent children being born with no father to help raise it around.

Since your parents did not talk about the alleviate status of them or their parents, it was not an issue. In many instances the parents were just to poor to merry (marriage taxes used to be high), or they were forbidden to do so (a soldier, specifically an military officer could not marry for a certain period of time of his military duty).

In your Grandmother's case, it looks like the father of the child was killed in WWI, so they could not marry after his return.

In your Granddad's case, it looks like J. F. as natural father changed his mind. But things like that happen today.


----- Original Message -----
From: P. Subity
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 6:07 PM
Subject: [BANAT-L] Translation needed and a question on illegitmate children

Talk about opening up a can of worms...

First of all I need a translation:

Eintrag in Bemerkungen: J. F. als Leiblicher Vater.

Now about illegitimate children, how were they listed in church
records, and aside from family rumours is it possible about 90 years
latter to find out the background of such children. Were they considered
" illegitimate?"

There are two family stories about WW1. Both my grandparents were
"living together" and had children. I understand that if they weren't
old enough to marry or the families did not approve, they couldn't get
married, they couldn't.

In my Grandmother's case the fellow went off to WW1 leaving Grandma and
her daughter and never returned. My Aunt is listed under my
Grandmother's maiden name, and there is no mention of her father,

Similarly, my Grandfather was "living" with a woman and she had a son,
and while he was away, and purportedly took up with someone else. When
he returned from WW1, he refused to go back with her. I think I have
found a record of the son, listed under his mother's maiden name and
the following Eintrag in Bemerkungen: J. F als Leiblicher Vater. I
have just put the initials.

I have names and a possible match in the records I have, but am not

These stories were never told to us, but are coming out know after
every one is gone.

I would like any insights into this...

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