BANAT-L Archives

Archiver > BANAT > 2005-08 > 1125240940

From: "Nick Tullius" <>
Subject: RE: [BANAT-L] German Reich & Banat
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 10:56:58 -0400
In-Reply-To: <>

Thank you, Dave and George, for tackling parts of a very complex history.
Volumes would be required to even summarize that history, but it may be
worth filling in a few details.

The elected emperors of the Holy Roman Empire came from several 'houses'
(dynasties) between 768 and 1437 (including the house of Luxemburg from 1347
to 1437). From 1438 to 1806 they were all from the house of Habsburg and
they resided in Vienna.

When it is said that our ancestors "were called by their emperor to go to
the Banat", then that emperor was the German emperor (full title "Emperor of
the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation"). The colonists came from many
regions of the German Reich (full designation "Roman Empire of the German

Here is a good one: German emperor Franz II (a Habsburg) morphed into
Austrian emperor Franz I in 1804, as Napolean took the "Holy Empire" out of
its misery.

Our ancestors moved into the Imperial Province called "Regio Temesvariensis"
that later received the (incorrect) name "Banat". Between 1718 and 1778 the
Banat was run by a German-speaking administration centered in Temeswar,
directly subordinated to Hofkammer (the imperial administration in Vienna).
Consequently, when moving to the Banat, our ancestors did not move to
"Hungary" proper, and can not be assumed to have made any kind of conscious
decision to change their language and 'national identity' (a more recent

The region had been a Hungarian province before becoming part of the Ottoman
Turkish Empire for the 164 years immediately preceding 1718. In 1718 there
were no remnants of any Hungarian administration. The population was
extremely low (about 3 persons per square kilometer) and consisted of
Wallachs (Rumanians), Serbians, and some Armenians, Bulgarians, Jews, and
gypsies. There was no economy to speak of. Swamps ruled the landscape...

The re-integration of the region into Hungary in 1778 was based on perceived
political expediency at Viennese Court. It can be seen as the first heavy
blow dealt by fate to our ancestors. Many more were to follow.

Sorry for the long dissertation,
Nick Tullius

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
Sent: August 28, 2005 2:58 AM
Subject: [BANAT-L] German Reich

The "Empire" in Europe dates back to Charlemagne, but the lands of the
French, Germans and Italians had already become distinct entities by the
800s. The idea and goal of a "universal" empire survived until 1356 when
IV issued his Golden Bull. This restricted papal influence in German
affairs and made the selection of the emperor a German matter. The empire
known as "Sacrum Romanum Imperium Nationis Germanicae" or "das heilige
Römische Reich der deutschen Nation" (Holy Roman Empire of the German
With reference to the settlement of the Banat, the "empire" meant the
Holy Roman Empire until 1804. After that, it is often called the Austrian
Empire, but it is more properly the Habsburg Empire. Hungary, part of the
Habsburg Empire, was never part of the HRE, and Hungarians would probably
exception to being called part of the Austrian Empire. The Banat was part


==== BANAT Mailing List ====
No part of these messages nor the archives file containing them may be
published or redistributed in any form by a "FOR PROFIT" or commercial
organization. All publication requires the permission of each message

Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the
last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more:

This thread: