BANAT-L ArchivesArchiver > BANAT > 2005-08 > 1125247974
Subject: RE: [BANAT-L] Transylvanian Saxons
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:52:54 +0000
This is the information that Gert Liess, a descendant of the Transylvania Saxons (Siebenbuerger Sachsen), gave to me about their history. I've translated this from German for your convenience.
"The Siebenbuerger Sachsen settled 850 years ago in the area between east, south, and Westkarpaten. They originally came from the area that is now Luxembourg, south Belgium, and West Germany. All Siebenbuerger Sachsen have been of the Evangelist faith since the reformation of Martin Luther in the 16th century."
I deleted most of my Siebenbuerger Sachsen links when I realized that they weren't related to my Banater ancestors. However, here's a link to a brief Transylvanian history: http://www.geocities.com/transmagyar/Part_1_.htm See especially the sections on the 9th, 10th, and 12th centuries.
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> Interesting subject....anyone, have we had this discussion previously?
> If my memory is correct, growing up in North Dakota in the 40's and 50's we
> always referred to ourselves as German-Hungarians. I have a photo of the
> Deutsch-Ungarische Lese und Unterstuetzungs Verein (German-Hungarian Reading
> and Support Society) taken in 1912. There was a German-Hungarian Club that
> only recently closed its doors. I recently did a snail mailing to some ND
> alumni with regard to the Celebration in Mt. Angel and I referred to it as a
> German-Hungarian Celebration and tried to explain the evolution to
> Donauschwaben. I am guessing that a number of the people on that snail
> mailing are not familiar with the terms Banat or Donauschwaben.
> Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube_Swabians I see the following
> "The Danube Swabians (German: Donauschwaben; sometimes Donau Schwabians in
> English) is a collective term for Germans who lived in the former Kingdom of
> Hungary, especially in the Danube (Donau) river valley. Because of the
> different development of the countries with areas settled by Germans, the
> Danube Swabians can not be seen as a unified people. They include Hungarian
> Germans, Satu Mare Swabians, the Banat Germans, and Yugoslav Germans. The
> Carpathian Germans and Transylvanian Saxons are not included within the
> Danube Swabians."
> A couple of questions:
> 1. I have a little problem with the statement, but who are the Satu Mare
> Swabians and where is it located? Looking at ShtetlSeeker I see 6 different
> Satu Mare's in Romania.
> 2. With regard to the Transylvanian Saxons. If I remember my history,
> Transylvania was a refuge for Protestants during the Reformation. Was this
> during the reign of Joseph II, the Holy Roman Emperor or was it earlier?
> And where did these Saxon Germans come from?
> PS Cindy, we are going to have a great time in Mt. Angel and we are looking
> forward to meeting you!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [mailto:]
> > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:09 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: [BANAT-L] Banater Schwaben versus Donauschwaben
> > Would someone help me understand why there's a controversy
> > over the term Banater Schwaben (Banat Swabian)? There's a
> > woman who's on this list and also on a Donauschwaben (Danube
> > Swabia) list, who says:
> > "Please, please, there is no such a thing as BANAT SCHWABEN.
> > They were all BANAT'S DONAUSCHWABEN!"
> > However, I find my Banater sites that use the term Banater
> > Schwaben or the English variant. From my understanding, the
> > Banater Schwaben are a part of Donauschwaben, similar to way
> > that people in Washington County are a part of Oregon.
> > >From the BANAT-L archives, I find that the term
> > "Donauschwaben" was only coined in 1920. This is after my
> > ancestors immigrated to the United States. My family called
> > themselves German on their immigration papers. What did other
> > Banaters' ancestors call themselves?
> > I also find that some of my Banater ancestors came to the
> > area from Schwabia. However, the same woman tells me that my
> > heritage can't be both Donauschwaben and Schwaben because the
> > two are unrelated. If I claim to have any Schwaben ancestry,
> > she says, "...you can skip the Donauschwaben altogether and
> > do your research on strictly a Schwaben list." I understand
> > from her that most Donauschwaben are not from Schwabia.
> > However, from what I've seen about the Banaters so far
> > indicates that most Banaters were from Schwabia. It seems our
> > ancestors are a mixed bunch with a common language from a common area.
> > Is there something I'm missing here? Is there a resentment by
> > someone for some reason I can't understand against people
> > with Schwaben ancestry? Yes, I know the old jokes and the
> > stereotypes. However, this seems to go beyond that.
> > I have only recently and joyfully found the Donauschwaben and
> > the BANAT-L and already I am managing to find myself in the
> > middle of some controversy that I don't understand. I had
> > planned to go to the Donauschwaben Celebration in Mt. Angel,
> > Oregon next month. However, now I'm unsure.
> > Regards,
> > Cindy Quitta