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Archiver > BELL-UK > 2004-07 > 1090032611


From: "J.P. Bell" <>
Subject: Re: [BELL-UK] Can anybody help?
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 22:50:11 -0400
References: <40F615D3.8080502@infotech.monash.edu.au>


Hi John! It is only recently that I signed on to this list and, while I
have not read too many messages from it yet, yours certainly interests me.
I have found that the best results come from asking the right questions.
So, I'll ask a couple here and stick a few in between some of your lines
below. I was going to put a blurb at the end about my Bell family and a few
areas that parallel yours. However, that would have made the message too
long. Besides, I'd like to have other readers look over my data and
questions head on, so I will shortly send the Bell-UK-L a message like
yours, but with a bit more detail (look for it). First, am I correct in
thinking that, though you are in Australia (your address ends .au), most of
the place names in your message are in England? In that these messages go
world-wide, it is best for a writer not to assume that all the readers are
in the same country, and thus know right where each place is. I wonder
whether you have had any contact with the descendants of the Jack and Ciss
Fryer who you mentioned as having gone America? More on this and other
things below.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bell" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: [BELL-UK] Can anybody help?


> Can anybody shed some light ?

What specific questions do you want light shed on?

> My grandfather William Bell was born in 1878, in South Shields (or very
> close to).

My grandfather, West Bell, born December 29, 1878, was a contemporary of
your grandfather. There were certainly many people involved in things
"marine," but I sure wonder if my gf. knew your gf. or West's brother Edward
who is said to have died in South America while on shipping company
business.

> From what I could glean from my father prior to his passing away, my
> Bell line looks like this:

In regards to your father,what siblings, in-laws, out-laws, etc. do you have
data on and communication with?

> My father (William Bell)/his father(William Bell - marine engineer)/his
> father (also William Bell - and also a marine engineer)/his father (Jack
> Bell)

The name Jack is often a nickname for John. Is Jack John, or is Jack Jack?
As for the occupation, my grandfather's father was said to have been a
"shipwright." West Bell was born in the Tranmere section of Birkenhead,
across the Mersey from Liverpool (I have never been able to afford to go to
England, but maybe sometime...). Two factoids in connection with the
occupation and location give rise to more wonderings of mine: Many of the
big ships were built in Birkenhead. Liverpool was where Lamport and Holt
Lines (the company my Bell forebears were said to have been involved with)
was based.

> My father used to tell me that my great great grandfather, Jack Bell,
> used to live in Earsdon and worked as the Secretary to the Duke of
> Northumberland.

What kind of research have you been able to do regarding any of this?
(Census, correspondence with the present holders of the above positions,
...). I wonder what connection or life experience gave him the "in" that
enabled him to have the position you describe. Too, did that position
ultimately enable his son to have the connections to become the "marine
engineer?" Did the Duke have "marine" financial interests? Maybe all that
is a leap, but they say there is no such thing as a stupid question.

> As for my grandfather's, (William's) siblings he had 2 sisters…May and
> Ciss. May married somebody called Johnson and they lived in Cleveland
> and New York for a time before returning to England.

Have you checked census records on Ancestry.com for them in Cleveland and
New York? "Returning to England" means there were places there that they
had been associated with before leaving -- Do you know what the home towns
of either May or her husband were? Did they go to America following some
other family member? What were the time frames, and therefore the settings
of world economic and social conditions, of the moves away from and back to
England? Johnson being a very common name, I don't imagine that it'll be
too easy to research, particularly without a given name. Some years ago, I
was able to obtain a birth certificate for my grandfather from St.
Catherine's House. What vital records have you gotten?

> Ciss married a shipmate of my grandfather called Jack Fryer. He
> initially came from Emerald Hill in Melbourne. They went to America and
> stayed. I believe that they had one son Jack Fryer who lived in Coral
> Gables, Florida. Jack had a daughter called Debbie Fryer-Douglas.

Hmmm... If I read this right, you have described three generations in the
section above, and you would be a second cousin of Debbie (who might well
still be around). Is your father the only source of this info? If there
are others, what correspondence have you done? Shipmate in what company's
service, on what ships? The records of Lamport and Holt Lines, that I
mentioned above, were said to have been destroyed in bombing raids during
WWII. I wish that wasn't so, as I don't know how to verify their connection
with the company otherwise. The letters I do have from Lamport and Holt are
on really nice looking stationery, with colored ship's flags in a
semi-circular band at the top. Perhaps you would have better luck with the
compan(ies) your grandfather served with.

> Thanks for your time,
> John Bell

Thanks John for getting the juices flowing again with your message. After
getting a fair amount of info on my Bells some years ago, the returns have
been thin enough for long enough of a time as to discourage me from hoping.
Perhaps when I get the other message I mentioned above put onto the list, my
info might hit a chord with some reader and get me going again. God bless,
John, and keep on digging; and keep us all informed as to your progress.
-- Julian Peveril Bell II Jeremiah 33:3 (KJV)

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