BOARDS-ADMINS-L Archives

Archiver > BOARDS-ADMINS > 2001-12 > 1009184431


From: "George W. Durman" <>
Subject: Re: [BD-ADM] Mr SID
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 04:00:31 -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011222013332.00a7d840@mail.spwest1.tn.home.co m><5.0.2.1.2.20011221195228.02313320@pophost.pi.be><5.1.0.14.2.20011221025856.00a626e0@mail.spwest1.tn.home.co m><191.113a61.2953ce2d@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011222031216.046b3fa8@tqsi.com>


John, I agree that there does not seem to be any problems with the
MrSID
images for the census records. And, as you say, they ARE relatively
small
files. It's when the Lizard Tech technology is used for the maps
that the
rub comes in. The maps are relatively much larger than the small
census
records.

I've NEVER had any problems with the census graphics loading, or in
maneuvering around on the page. But, the technology doesn't seem
work
the same with the very, very large maps.

I think we're talking about two different things here. Just so
anyone else
wanting to download and save MrSID graphics, let me try to explain.

I don't know which MrSID viewer you downloaded, but I got the one
recommended on the web site. When I pull up a .SID file in it, then
choose
to "export" it (the only option, there is no SAVE or SAVE AS), and
then
choose the drive/directory to save it, the ONLY option available is
.TIF.
(In the "Save as Type" box, clicking the down triangle shows only
.TIF.)
I would LOVE to find out which viewer YOU are using, and how you
get the option to save as a .JPG file.

Yes, when saving the file from the web site, one may choose, .SID,
.JPG,
or .BMP. But, if you read the instructions, you see that you can
download
ONLY the portion of map being viewed (in .JPG format) if you are in
the
BROWSER mode. If you go to DETAIL mode, which is the only way you
can download the ENTIRE full-sized map, you are told that you can
ONLY
download as a .SID file to get the entire map in original size.

In the MrSID viewer, even on the icon bar, the only thing to click to
export
is a button that says "TIF". If you are using a different viewer
than mine,
which is MrSID Viewer, version 2.0.0.50 and comes directly from
Lizard
Tech, I would love to find out where to get it. If you ARE using the
same
one as I am, I would love to find out how you are able to export the
whole
picture as a .JPG file. Something is wrong here.

The problem I'm having here is that the standard graphics format has
been,
and still is, to either have a choice of downloading as a .JPG or
.GIF file,
both of which result in a REASONABLY sized file. Now, a company,
Lizard Tech, comes up with an entirely different format, one which is
NOT accessible by ANY other graphics program, including Paint Shop
Pro, Photo Shop, Photo Works, Adobe Photo, etc. This means down-
loading and installing yet another 3rd program to be able to view and
print a picture. And, MrSID viewer gives NO ability to "tweak" a
badly
scanned graphic. Therefore, one must convert a .SID file to
something
else that WILL be accessible in a NORMAL graphics program, and then
work with it. And I can tell you that I find very, very few graphics
on-
line that are have as good a resolution, contrast, etc., as they CAN
have,
with a little tweaking.

The only option I have ever seen for downloading as a .JPG is from
the
BROWSER mode of the maps utility at Ancestry, and you are told
that you can download ONLY the portion being viewed. That means if
you are viewing the map (BROWSER mode), and can see it all, THAT'S
the exact graphic file you will download -- so small you can't read
any-
thing on it.

I've read some of the other replies and it seems that MrSID causes
all
kinds of problems, some with various MS OS's, and some with MAC.
You see, that's the point. Why bring in yet another untested,
untried,
sometimes unworkable utility for the same of doing something new?
When I download a graphics file, I expect to be able to view it, to
edit
it, to tweak it (if needed), and to print it, without having to use a
3rd
party program and without having to make time consuming conversions
to a format that IS compatible with all OS's.

John, you, and a couple others, have missed the entire point. For
what
minimal use you do with the census images, it works fine. But it
does
NOT work satisfactorily for larger images such as the maps. Let me
tell you EXACTLY the story of one I just downloaded as a test. It
was "Across Kentucky, 1862". The .SID format is 3.5 Mb (that's
MEGABYTES!); converting it to a .TIF file in the MrSID Viewer
(the only option is .TIF), resulted in a file that was over 101 Mb
(that's ONE HUNDRED AND ONE MEGABYTES!), and took
almost 2 minutes on my "power machine". Does that sound like it
is satisfactory to you? Then, I can access the .TIF file in Paint
Shop
Pro and convert the .TIF file to a .JPG. (Forgot to mention that
when
converting to .TIF, two other files are created, a .TFW and a .TAB,
which are small but still take up space.) Anyway after two
conversions,
I finally get a .JPG file that is about 1.5 Mb. And, when working
with
a 101 Mb .SID file, my "power system" just doesn't have enough
memory or resources to do anything else.

You know, some time ago another company "experimented" with the
.PNG format, and a lot of web sites started using THAT format for
their graphics files. It was a bust! How many times do you see that
format available on the web today? NOT! MrSID will go the same
way.

In short, why be so enamored with MrSID for census graphics. You
could see a .JPG and use the scroll bars to look it over, just as
easily
as scanning with MrSID. Plus, when you downloaded you would
get the ENTIRE image in .JPG or .BMP format and have to do not
conversions to make it standard, and have to use no 3rd party program
to view it. KISS!!!!!

For your information, Ancestry can keep the MrSID format for
census graphics as far as I am concerned. I've no problem with that.
But, the map retrieval utility sucks!

SgtGeorge

At 12/22/2001 03:46 AM Saturday, John B. Lisle wrote:
*********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********
>George,
>
>I hope your next project is unsuccessful.
>
>I have no idea whether or not the MrSID program works well with the
>maps as I hardly every use the maps.
>
>But I do use it every day for the census. I admit that I needed to
>train my fingers to use it, but I quickly found that the MrSID
>viewer is very effective for the census images. The images are
>MUCH clearer than the gif images on-line from genealogy.com or the
>images on-line from Univ. of Michigan for the 1870 MI census (pdf
>format).
>
>The typical census image in MrSID format seems to be
>200-250KB. When I want to save an image, I right click when I am
>looking at the image and select save it and just use the SID format
>so I get full resolution in no time. As I have downloaded the FREE
>MrSID plug-in, I can then go to Windows Explorer and double click on
>the file and it opens a new browser window with the image. I can
>then take that image and create a jpg file of either the whole image
>or a part of the image. (I can do this from the census, also but
>tend now to save MrSID when I save something.) A jpg of the whole
>page takes up about 100 KB but the resolution is not as good as the
>MrSID format but I can clip out a part of the image at highest
>resolution and then work with that if I want.
>
>As an experiment, I did try the map for today. That map is a large
>color map of Mobile in 1864. The MrSID size is over 3 MB. And I
>can blow that up to very large size to see all of the detail. I can
>cut out a section of the map and create a jpg file that is about 200
>KB. This seems reasonable given the density of information and
>colors in the map.
>
>I did not even see a .tiff option: just .sid, .jpg and .bmp
>
>I am glad that they saved the map with the level of resolution so
>that I could view the smallest detail clearly. I do not see your
>problem.
>
>john.
>
>At 01:50 AM 12/22/2001 -0500, George W. Durman wrote:
>
>>Now, for the next project, I'm going to try to get them to get rid
>>of that "graphics from Hell" format, MrSID. Do you know that,
>>before MrSID, the average size of downloaded graphics from the
>>Daily Map section was less than 200,000 bytes? And that now the
>>average size of .SID graphics downloads is over 3 Mb? And, that
>>you can't view .SID graphics files with any COMMON Windows
>>utility? That you have to download a conversion program, that
>>converts .SID files to .TIFF files, which average over 25
>>Mb?????!!!!! Only after the conversion to .TIFF files can a user
>>then convert them to some common format, such as .JPG and get a
>>relatively small file????? Does all this sound to you like
>>Ancestry actually KNOWS what the H---- is going on? It doesn't
>>sound to me like they really care. They probably have some kind of
>>financial deal with Lizard Tech, the owners of the MrSID format. I
>>don't care if this brings in money to Ancestry's coffers or not --
>>the .SID graphics format is an abomination!
>>
>>They don't have a clue!
>>
>>SgtGeorge
>>George W. Durman
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