BRETHREN-L Archives

Archiver > BRETHREN > 2000-07 > 0962682563


From: "Sue F. Carpenter" <>
Subject: Re: Carolina Brethren/Universalism
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:49:23 -0400
References: <3.0.1.32.20000703211143.006b1700@pop.infocom.com>


Thank you so very much for your thorough response. It is very helpful to me
as I research.

My ancestor is Hans Zimmerman. He arrived in 1732 on the Pink Plaisance.
His family appears to originate in Steffisburg near Thun in the Canton of
Berne. The family removed in the early 1690's to Alsace. They lived in
Sainte-Marie-Aux-Mines (German -- Markirch). Also in this village was Jakob
Ammann, who started the Amish there in 1700.

I suspect my family was in the middle of all this religious stuff!

Sachse in his Sectarian book listed Hans (Johannes) Zimmerman as the leader
of the sect, New Mooners, in Lancaster County, Cocalico Township. Sachse
believed that the sect died out. In fact they probably removed to NC with
Hans Zimerman.

Here in the current Gaston-Lincoln-Catawba County area we now have
documentation of Seventh Day Baptists, Dunkers, Mennonite, and possibly
Amish. Yet very little documentation exists for them. Our earliest
histories seem to leave these sectarians out.

We also believe we have found a member of the South Carolina Weberites who
came to NC to preach in the 1760's before going back into SC.

You are right. Many of them appear to move west before and after the
Revolution. Others who stayed assimilated into other churches. My
Zimmermans became Lutheran, Reformed, Methodist by the second and third
generation. Other original German Baptist appear to have become regular
Baptist.

Lemuel Saunders appears to have taken over the Killians Settlement German
Baptist congregation. He appears to be English. There was no Samuel
Saunders; someone simply misread Lemuel's name. Lemuel Saunders later
served Long Creek Baptist, which apprears to have been English-speaking from
the beginning.

About two Dunker congregations did survive into the 1800's. One was
Thessalonica which was led by Peter Becker and other members of his family.
The Baker family took their Dunker beliefs into Missouri when they moved
there in the 1820's or so. Thessalonica is today a regular Baptist church.
An old cemetery in the woods is all that is left of the original Dunker
congregation. It appears that most Bakers and others simply became regular
Baptists.

The other church was located south of Thessalonica (which is in southwestern
Catawba County) and northwest of Lincolnton. I cannot find a name for it
yet. It seems that in the 1780's a group of Brethren migrated into this
area. Their surnames included Lingerfeldt, Leatherman, Leonard, Linhardt
(Leonhart), Rhodes, Kistler, etc. According to oral tradition they (and I
also believe Thessalonica) were served originally by a Rev. Mr. Leonard and
a Rev. Mr. Leonhardt. Later Rev. Henry Rhodes (wife Clara Hire) arrived in
the community and ministered to both churches. I suspect that after the
death of Rev. Rhodes and these earliest leaders and with the subsequent
scarcity of ministers the Brethren congregations became regular Baptist.

Henry Whitener (German Heinrich Weidner)'s mother was at the Ephrata
Cloister. His brothers were on Lynches Creek near Camden, SC and kept their
Seventh Day Baptist beliefs. An oral tradition in the Whitener family
indicates that Henry's funeral was preached by a Rev. Martin from SC. I
suspect this was David Martin just prior to his death.

My Zimmermans also became involved with the Martins both in Pennsylvania and
in NC. I have never been able to determine a connection between the various
Martin families.

Your information has been very helpful to me. I appreciate all your help.
I would like to continue to use your vast knowledge as I try to unravel our
sectarian past.

Thanks,
Robert Carpenter
----- Original Message -----
From: Merle C Rummel <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Carolina Brethren/Universalism


> >
> >I seek information about David and George Martin. David is listed as a
> Brethren minister in SC. I believe that he and possibly George Martin may
> have also served a congregation in present Gaston County, NC. Does anyone
> have information on these people and documentation about their ministry.
> >
> >I am also interested in any other German Baptist ministers who may have
> served in NC or SC during this time period -- prior to and shortly after
> the American Revolution.
> >
> >I also seek information about what happened to two Brethren ministers:
> Christopher Guiss, Guise, Guss, etc. and Philip Earhart, Earhard. Both
> lived in present eastern Lincoln County, NC. They are documented Brethren
> in Pennsylvania and apparently served a church called Killians Settlement
> here.
> >
> >Finally, I seek information about a Rev. Henry Rhodes (Heinrich Roth).
He
> married Clara Hire and removed to NC sometime after the American
> Revolution. He is listed as a Brethren minister here in NC in the 1800's
> until his death prior to the Civil War. I suspect that he comes from the
> Viriginia Brethren Roth/Rhodes family. I would like to have some proof.
> "Sue F. Carpenter" <>
>
> >
> I'm interested in what you may find about the Carolina churchs. Dr Roger
> Sappington wrote on the Carolina Brethren, but you are asking questions he
> doesn't cover.
>
> David Martin is a known son of George Adam Martin, the Beisselite minister
> of Pennsylvania. George Adam Martin pastored at the Conowago Church,
where
> he became involved with Conrad Beissel -then he went to the Antietam, near
> Waynesville PA, near where the Snowhill Cloisters were (Ephrata). He
moved
> on to Brother's Valley, Somerset Co PA (1764), where he caused
considerable
> confusion. He took trips to the Carolinas where he had children (I know
> only of David).
>
> David was a strong leader in the Carolinas. He died on the Broad River in
> 1796 I think it was. He taught Brethren
Universalism/Restorationism -which
> Annual Meeting condemned in 1798. Because David was already deceased, the
> Ban was on "John H" -who was most likely John Hendricks. Elder John
> Hendricks moved on to Warren Co Kentucky, and died on a trip to Kaskaskia
> IL in 1813. The result of the ban -was the loss of all the churches in
the
> Carolinas. Many of the members moved to Kentucky, and carried their
> Pietism, and their Universalism with them.
>
> Christopher Guis was minister at the Catawba Congregation, and lived at
> Middle Creek from 1756 to 1768, when he moved back to Virginia. Samuel
> Sauders was minister there with him, and Lemuel Saunders is listed as an
> Elder at the Long Creek Baptist Church (died 1795). This may be a
Brethren
> congregation, since we did not adopt the name "German Baptist" till 1830.
> I do not see the name Earhardt in any of Sappington's list. Sappington
> gives from Morgan Edwards' Baptist listing 1770, that Christopher Guss was
> at the Shenadore Congregation (Shenandoah), Valley of Virginia.
>
> My own ancestor was Conrad Kerns, minister at Crane Creek, Salisbury NC.
> He served with his brother, John Kerns. James Hendricks was a minister
> there also, but he moved up to Dutchman's Creek where John Hendricks is
> listed.
>
> Jacob Stutzman and Michael Pfoutz are listed as ministers at Ewarry Creek,
> Randolph Co NC (c1764). Jacob was the one who brought the attention of
> Annual Meeting to the teachings of David Martin and John Hendricks on
> Universalism. In 1801, he moved to the Beech Creek Church, Shelby Co KY,
> then about 1805 to the Olive Branch Church in Clark Co IN.
>
> Dutchman's Creek was at the forks of the Yadkin, in Davie Co NC. Its
> preachers included the Hendricks brothers, and Gaspar and Joseph Rowland.
> These went to several of the Kentucky Churches: John Hendricks to Drakes
> Creek Church, Warren Co; James Hendricks to Hinkston Creek, Montgomery Co;
> Joseph Rowland to Bourbon Co; and possibly Gaspar Rowland (at least his
> son) to the Drakes Creek Church, Bowling Green.
>
> the Fraternity Church, Winston Salem NC is still in existence. Its
> ministers were John Burkhart, Jacob Pfau and a John Tanner/Danner?.
>
> the Beaver Creek Church, on the Santee River, Newberry Co SC lists David
> Martin as its minister, with John Pearson and Giles Chapman also
ministering.
>
> the Edisto Congregation, which I know was southeast in South Carolina, but
> other than that I haven't located (Long Creek, Cattle Creek) lists Elijah
> Patchet as minister.
>
> There are other Brethren Communities, some of them being 7th Day (Ephrata)
> and most of them being mixed Dunker Brethren and 7th Day Brethren. There
> was not that much difference in the Pietist Dunker Brethren, and the
> Pietist 7th Day Brethren (Beisselites).
>
> Restitutionism (ak Brethren Universalism) was a Pietist belief, held at
the
> time by most of the Brethren. It was just a matter of degree. God loves
> his people, therefore, they will go to heaven. They may go through a type
> of pergatory, to burn out the evil ways before they can go on to heaven.
> This is a Christian Universalism, and not todays Unitarian Universalism.
> But again -its just a matter of degree. The Anabaptists did not accept it
> -and Annual Meeting accepted Restitutionism, but rejected Universalism.
>
> I find various Brethren preachers, and preacher's children, in Kentucky,
> Ohio and Indiana who preached Universalism. Some remained Brethren,
others
> became preachers in the Universalist Church. Many of our early churches
of
> Ohio and Indiana have divisions in their families, with part of the family
> leaving the Brethren and helping start Universalist Churches. (This was
> separate from the Great Revival/Disciples of Christ dispute, c1826.)
>
> Merle C Rummel
> Church Historian
>
>
> ==== BRETHREN Mailing List ====
> 4 -------------------
> The Fellowship of Brethren Genealogists
> (owners of this list-server)
> Now have a Homepage on The World Wide Web
> To visit it point your browser to
> http://www.cob-net.org/fobg/
> ------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

This thread: