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Archiver > BRETHREN > 2002-12 > 1040335362


From: "SmithFarms" <>
Subject: Re: [BRE] Info re: arrival of ships to US in 1700s?
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:08:03 -0500
References: <DAV6FTYvF1LdHQ97GkP0001c847@hotmail.com> <007301c2a754$f64147c0$ab8a06d1@D1JH4121>


Does anyone know of a website I could go to or where I could info re: these
ships from the previous mentioned areas to the US in the early to mid-1700s
and the passenger lists of the ships? Am looking in particular for Von Munch
or Minnich or Menik or Mennnix or Minix or any derivative of that surname.
TIA and have a wonderful and safe Christmas, Amelia
----- Original Message -----
From: Dwayne Wrightsman <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [BRE] Children of Michael Frantz of Little Swatara Creek


> Janice,
> It is my understanding that the Paul Frantz who immigrated in 1737 was
part
> of the Frantz Family from France, which had no connection. The Frantzes
of
> Little Swatara Creek had been Swiss Mennonites, but they lived many years
in
> a number of farming communities in the Palatinate of Germany. Two of
these
> villages were Ittlingen and Hoesselinshof. According to a 1732 document
> housed in the Archives of the Mennonite Congregation of Amsterdam,
thirteen
> members of the Christian Frantz I family were staying at Zimmerhoff before
> their 1732 departure with other Swiss Mennonites on the Ship Samuel. The
> family did not become members of the German Baptist Brethren until after
> they had settled in Lancaster County. I am not aware of their using the
> name Paul for any of their children.
> Dwayne
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janice Sweeney" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 3:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [BRE] Children of Michael Frantz of Little Swatara Creek
>
>
> > Does Paul Frantz who arrived on the ship Samuel in 1737 have any
> connection to this family?
> > Janice
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dwayne Wrightsman
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:26 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: [BRE] Children of Michael Frantz of Little Swatara Creek
> >
> >
> > CHILDREN OF MICHAEL FRANTZ OF LITTLE SWATARA CREEK
> >
> > The Michael Frantz who lived downstream on Little Swatara Creek from his
> > brothers Christian II and John, in the Bethel/Tulpehocken area of
> Lancaster
> > County, was the son of Christian Frantz I (b.c1685). Michael's neighbor
> on
> > Little Swatara Creek was John Nicholas Garst. This geography we know
from
> > land records--warrants, surveys, patents, and deeds--in the Pennsylvania
> > State Archives in Harrisburg. Tax records for Bethel Twp. indicate that
> > they were neighbors from about 1750 to about 1790.
> >
> > Not much is known about Michael Frantz's immediate family except that he
> had
> > four sons--Christian, Daniel, David, and Peter--who married daughters of
> > John Nicholas Garst. This we know from the March 1808 Botetourt Co.,
VA,
> > settlement records of the estate of John Nicholas Garst.
> >
> > The extended Frantz-Garst families moved from PA to VA in the early
1790s.
> > This we know from the early land and tax records of Botetourt County.
The
> > four Frantz men who married Garst women--Christian, Daniel, David, and
> > Peter--were all listed as Botetourt taxpayers from the mid-1790s. A
fifth
> > Frantz man, named Michael, was also listed as a taxpayer during this
time.
> > This Michael was not the father, but rather an older brother of the four
> who
> > married Garsts. This we know from documentation in James Arthur Shanks,
> > "The Shanks Family from Pequea Creek," 1985. This Michael was married
to
> > Elizabeth Sollenberger.
> >
> > The documented evidence limits the Michael Frantz family to five sons:
> > Michael Jr., Christian, Daniel, David, and Peter, of which the latter
four
> > married daughters of John Nicholas Garst.
> >
> > Compare this to the conventional view that the family included a wife
and
> > mother, Magdalena Zug, and four more children--John, Jacob, Abraham, and
> an
> > unnamed daughter. Also included in this view was the notion that the
> > husband and father was the son of the famous Michael Frantz, who was
Elder
> > of the Conestoga Congregation of German Baptist Brethren from about 1734
> to
> > about 1748. This conventional view originated from an early
unpublished
> > manuscript of Dore M. Frantz. This manuscript was essentially published
> by
> > being incorporated in Lorraine Frantz Edwards, "Frantz Families -- Kith
> and
> > Kin," 1996.
> >
> > In the 1996 book, Lorraine F. Edwards questioned whether John and Jacob
> were
> > of this family, and rightfully so, as these two have been more recently
> > identified as belonging to the Hans Frantz line.
> >
> > Abraham Frantz is an enigma. According to Cocalico marriage records,
kept
> > by Rev. John Waldschmidt, this Abraham was probably the son of the
Michael
> > Frantz who lived in Cocalico, who, in turn, was probably the real son of
> > Michael Frantz I, Elder of the Conestoga Congregation. There is no
> > evidence, however, that he was from the Little Swatara area, born in the
> > line of Christian Frantz I. My own view is that Abraham was not a
sibling
> > of the Frantz men who married Garsts.
> >
> > That leaves the unnamed sister. According to William Tell Garst, "Our
> Garst
> > Family in America," 1950, John Nicholas Garst had a son, Jacob Garst,
who
> > married an unnamed Frantz woman. Most Garst and Frantz researchers have
> > concluded that she was probably a sister of the four Frantz brothers who
> > married Garsts, so that the marriages between the two families numbered
> > five. Although this cannot be proven, circumstances suggest that the
> > unnamed Frantz daughter was probably in the family of Michael Frantz,
son
> of
> > Christian I.
> >
> > That leaves the alleged wife, Magdalena Zug. As far as I can tell,
there
> is
> > no evidence to support this marriage. In an earlier post, entitled "The
> > Myth of Magdalena Zug," I invited readers and researchers to defend the
> > marriage. Thus far, no one has come forward to do so. The myth
> continues,
> > awaiting either proof or disproof.
> >
> > Finally, there is the matter of the paternal grandfather of the Frantz
men
> > who married Garst women. The conventional view points to Michael Frantz
> I.
> > This view remains undocumented. Alternatively, ship records, land
> records,
> > and church records, all point to Christian Frantz I. This view, which I
> > have been presenting in emails to readers for many months, enjoys the
> > support of considerable documentation.
> >
> > To summarize, the children of Michael Frantz of Little Swatara Creek
> > included sons Michael, Christian, Daniel, David, and Peter, and probably
a
> > daughter who was wife of Jacob Garst. There is no evidence that it
> included
> > a John Frantz, a Jacob Frantz, or an Abraham Frantz, as commonly
thought.
> > John and Jacob were in the line of Hans Frantz. Abraham was seemingly
in
> > the line of Michael Franz I. The children of Michael Frantz of Little
> > Swatara Creek were in the line of Christian Frantz I.
> >
> > Dwayne Wrightsman
> > Lee, NH
> >
> >
> >
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