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From: "C Rihan" <>
Subject: Re: [B&D] Help needed with my EVANS-SHORTMAN family
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:09:50 -0000
References: <420481.56606.qm@web87003.mail.ird.yahoo.com>


Hi Jacky

It may be that even Mary Ann thought Edward SHORTMAN was
her father, and it's possible that he was even if not married at the time.
Presumably Frances was spinster on her marriage certificate?
And was Edward a bachelor? Or could he have had a previous wife?

FreeBMD has a birth for a Mary SHORTMAN regiistered in
Keynsham in Dec qtr 1845.
Could that be her?
There's also a birth for a Maria Louisa SHORTMAN registered
Westbury on S'n in Dac qtr 1843.
Perhaps there was a bit of confusion with similar sounding places.

Have you found Edward SHORTMAN on the 1841 census?
And his father?

As to checking the EVANS, that's not so easy with that surname..
However if either died, there should be a death registered.
If they are still in the workhouse in 1851 they should be on a census.
If there was an occupation for her on the birth certificate that might help
to find her
I don't know if that institution gave full names so might be there
as F Evans say, (or even F.E). with an age.
There's some information here.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Clifton/Clifton.shtml


Or if they moved out should be listed elsewhere.Frances may be
married so you could check for marriages and see what other surnames
she might be if not SHORTMAN.

Caroline
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacky Jackson-Cox" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:38 AM
Subject: [B&D] Help needed with my EVANS-SHORTMAN family


>I seem to have hit a brick wall researching this
> branch of my family and wondered whether any of the
> very knowledgeable people on this group could suggest
> any further lines of enquiry.
>
> When I asked my aunt for the maiden name of my great
> grandmother she told me it was Mary Ann SHORTMAN, that
> she was born in Westbury on Trym and that her father
> and grandfather were both gardeners. This seemed to
> be confirmed by her marriage certificate, which showed
> her father as Edward SHORTMAN, a gardener.
>
> Further research, however, has shown that Edward
> SHORTMAN and Frances/Fanny EVANS were not married
> until 14th November 1847, when Frances was pregnant
> again with son Thomas, whose birth was registered in
> the Dec quarter of 1847. In the 1851 census Mary Ann
> SHORTMAN is aged about 6 and her brother Thomas is
> aged about 3.
>
> Failing to find any record of the birth of a Mary Ann
> SHORTMAN at the relevant time, I sent off for the
> birth certificate of a Mary Ann EVANS registered in
> Clifton in 1845 or 1846. I gave the GRO both
> references, but only asked them to look at the second
> one if the first one didn't work out. I thought the
> chances of them both being unmarried mothers with the
> same name were slim and I picked the one that seemed
> to fit best with Mary Ann's marriage certificate.
>
> If I have the right birth certificate it appears that
> my Gt Grandmother was born 27th April 1845 at Clifton
> Union Workhouse, Penny Well Road. Does anyone know if
> there is any way that I can verify whether this mother
> and daughter survived and left the workhouse? If they
> did, what are the chances of this Frances Evans going
> on to marry Edward SHORTMAN two years later?
>
> I have tried to find out more about Frances EVANS.
> According to her marriage cert., her father was John
> EVANS, a mason. In the Bristol Diocese Baptismal
> records there is a Frances Evans, daughter of John and
> Susan, baptized 22.10.1820, St.Augustine 3a 12 89, and
> her father is a mason living in Lime Kiln Lane. But I
> can not find him in the 1841 census.
>
> I have also found a marriage for a John EVANS and
> Susanna STEVENS in St Michael's parish 100 299; Date:
> 1.02.1818; John was a widower of the parish of St
> James, and Susanna was a spinster of St Michael's
> parish. The marriage was by license.
>
> Assuming these are the right people, where were they
> in 1841 and why did Frances give birth in the
> workhouse?
>
> I have found two deaths recorded for Susanna EVANS:
>
> EVANS Susanna 40 23/Feb/1825 St. Michael On The Mount
> P.St M/R/4/a 172 1371
> EVANS Susanna 49 24/Nov/1829 St. James P.St J/R/4/a
> 136 1088
>
> Either of these is possible. It doesn't say that John
> EVANS is deceased on Frances' marriage certificate,
> but if he was alive in 1847, where was he in 1841?
>
> The name "SHORTMAN" is very concentrated in the
> Bristol / Gloucestershire / South Wales area, and I
> have gathered lots of information about the SHORTMANS,
> but it seems very likely now that they are only my
> family by adoption.
>
> Jacky
>
>
>
> ========================================================================
> Jacky Jackson-Cox
> Personal web page: http://www.btinternet.com/~jacky3/ Last updated
> 24/02/2007
>
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