Archiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 1999-07 > 0931006999

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Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 31 dtd 15 Mar 1998 (edited)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 09:03:19 EDT

(issued biweekly by )
March 15, 1998
(all rights reserved)

This edition of the newsletter contains articles on the village of Deutsch
Tschantschendorf (no. 20 of the Father Leser series), Recent BB Coverage on
ORF (Austrian Radio), A Short Visit Over the Hungarian Border (Hianzen
Dialect), The Abbreviation ING. DOM., One Immigrant's Memory, An Antwerp Ship

PLEASE NOTE: I get lots of email. I save most of it to my AOL Personal Filing
Cabinet and then archive it. As you can guess I have hundreds of pieces of
email with the title "Burgenland Bunch". It would help me if the subject
title of your email would describe the contents like "Burgenland Bunch
-villages" or "BB-XXX Name". Thanks for your cooperation.

(1873-1949) EXCERPTS (cont. from newsletters nos. 21-29; by Albert Schuch)
20) Deutsch Tschantschendorf (D. T.)
In 1359-1588 called Chench, 1598 Nemet Chench, after 1686 (in the Gssing
church records) Tschentschendorf, Dschantschendorf, Schanzendorf,
Scanzentorff, Zanchendorff, Schenzendorff, etc..Partly destroyed during the
Turkish siege of Gssing (1532). In 1604 the following members of the lesser
nobility lived there: Christophorus, Matthias and Lorenz ZARKA, Nikolaus
GYAYKA, Johann MIKLOS, Benedikt BALINTH, Franz MAGYAR, Leopold NEMETH,
Augustin and Johann LEX, Jakob CHORO, Andreas, Ladislaus and Kaspar ERDEGH.
D.T.-surnames as shown in the Gssing baptism records 1669-80: SCHULER,

The Urbarium 1745 shows: Georg HAMEDL (Richter); Hans FELBER, Michael WAGNER,
Paul HAMEDL, Georg GARAUS, Hans JANDRICHICH, Hans PAUER (Geschworene);
Sessionalisten (farmers) were: GROSS, GARAUS; Paul, Georg, Michael, Andreas
RASNER, RATH, LACKNER, 2 SUMMER, 2 MATTHYAS; the farm of Paul GRAF was given
to the teacher Franz RICHTER; Sllner were: on the Wndischberg: TAPPLER and
Haselberg: BILLER; on the Ganglberg: SASNER; on the Lakenberg: DUNST, FRISCH,
MATTHYAS, GUTTMANN, WAGNER, HAMEDL, SCHUSTER. 1668-1788 church records in
Gssing. From 1789 onwards D.T. was an independent parish, including
Kroatisch Tschantschendorf, Tudersdorf and Tobaj. Tobaj returned to Gssing
parish in 1874. New church erected in 1881, renovated 1914. Around 1910 a
chapel was built with donations from American emigrants. Priests: 1822-32
Johann WLFER, 1832-56 Lukas KORBATSITS, 1856-68 Franz SCHMIDT, 1868-74 Josef
STERR, 1884-1902 Johann ROSSMANN, 1902-17 Stefan FZY, 1917-22 Georg ILLES,
from 1922 Vinzenz KLCKL. Teachers: 1742 Georg LUKA, 1745 Franz RICHTER, 1757
Johann BERKOVICS, 1812 Georg KROBETH (from Gerersdorf, 46 y, spoke German and
Croatian, had taught in Stinatz for 6 years). In 1829 Tobaj already had a
school of its own, with Franz WESSELY as teacher. Further teachers in D.T.:
1832 (still ?) Georg KROBOTH, ca. 1850-77 Karl FREY, later one POLANYI, then
until 1920 Stefan HAFNER, 1920-29 Karl TUNKL. From 1903 onwards also an
assisting teacher (Stefan ANTHREY, later Margarethe HUBER). A fire in the
1880's destroyed 15 houses. Inhabitants: 1812: 362 Catholics, 10 Lutherans;
1832: 491 Cath., 1 Luth.; 1850: 540; 1929: 710 (4 Jews) in 140 houses.
(source: V+H Nr. 12-14/1957)

We were contacted by ORF representative Andreas Riedl who was considering a
TV program, to be filmed in Chicago, which would feature ORF internet
listeners. They were also considering a short program concerning the BB.
Members Tom Glatz and Rev. Paul Reicher from the Chicago area graciously
offered their assistance. While the Chicago visit did not materialize, I was
subsequently asked by Herr Riedl if I would be available for a telephone
interview to be taped and aired on the "Burgenlandstunde". Always looking for
international coverage for our genealogical searches, I agreed and
subsequently was interviewed via telephone. Questions dealt with who I was,
how our group was started, our interest in the Burgenland etc. The following
tells the story:

From: (Andreas Riedl)
To: (Albert Schuch),
The story about the Burgenland Bunch for which I already made an interview
with Mr. Berghold (Thanks for your help) will be on the air on Tuesday, 17th
of February at 15.03 pm our time. The Burgenland Stunde starts at about 15.03
pm, the story about the Burgenland Bunch will be on air at about 20 minutes
past 3 pm (our time!!) So Mr. Berghold, I think you can listen to the story
via Internet over the homepage of Radio Burgenland. greetings from
Burgenland. I hope we will get some positive reactions about the story, and
maybe we can find some more fans for you.

Following Are Comments From Some Of Those Who Heard The Program:
Eric Kumbusch- (Gerry) I know you from your letters, I have the picture of
you and your wife that you sent to me but half an hour ago I heard you on
Radio Burgenland. Congratulations! This was a very informative and
interesting presentation of the Burgenland Bunch.

Gerhard & Martina Lang-Guten Morgen, Gerry (in Austria it's a quarter to
nine)! I received your e-mail, concerning the "Burgenlandstunde" on
Burgenland broadcasting station. This week I'm on holiday and therefore I had
the chance to listen to it. I found it well-made by Andreas Riedl and I guess
I will ask him for the feedback of the listeners - if I have the chance to
meet him.

Anna Kresh-You are now an international celebrity! Spent several hours on the
Internet tonight with Radio Burgenland playing the most beautiful music in
the background. I've been looking all over for music like that out here and
can't believe I've finally got it right here on my computer.

Albert Schuch-The radio story featuring the B.Bunch has just been
transmitted. I hope it will bring us new members. I have taped it. Also will
send a "thank you" e-mail to Andreas Riedl. He has done a good job.

HUNGARY AND HEINZEN DIALECT (suggested by an email extract from Fritz
Knigshofer to Andrew Burghardt, author of "Borderland")
(Ed. comment: The region of Hungary which lies just over the border is a
very mysterious place. When the iron curtain was erected, all of those
villages which once connected to their sister borderland villages were
suddenly cut off, becoming a backwater. When I visited Pinka Mindzent and
some other "curtain" villages not too long ago, I was amazed at how shabby
everything was. The few people I talked to knew very little German and no
English. What is interesting about Fritz's visit is that apparently there are
still inhabitants who speak the old "Heinzen" or Hianzen dialect (also called
"burgenlndische). There is current interest in this dialect. Prof. Andrew
Burghardt in his book "Borderland" says "Burgenlnders speak a dialect which
differs from that spoken in either Lower Austria or Styria. This difference
is evident in the extreme flattening of some vowels, the diphthonging of
others, and in the use of other expressions." Dr. Walter Dujmovits in the
Burgenlndische Gemeinschaft newsletter features a column of Heinzisch words
and there is also new and old literature, led by the works of deceased
Gssng born poet Josef Reichl (1860-1924). His poem "Mei Hoamat" (Mein
Heimat-My Homeland) is well known throughout Austria. Our ancestors spoke
this dialect. For those who know little or no regular German, it can be
daunting, but it is possible to find it used in old letters or immigrant
expressions.) Fritz Knigshofer's remarks follow:

"Dear Andrew Burghardt, Thanks to Gerry Berghold, I noted that your parents
hail from Veszprm county hill area. I wonder where their village might be.
Your message raised sentiments with me of a most unexpected encounter I had
last June (1997).

I had been on mission to Budapest, where I rented a car over a weekend to
visit my hometown Graz for my 35th high school reunion. On the way back to
Budapest, I planned to stop in Bakonybl for a surprise visit to my uncle (my
father's cousin) Richard (Rezs) Koller who is the parish priest of
Bakonybl. This village lies in Veszprm county heartland, in the center of
the Bakony mountains and forest. Veszprm city is also called the capital of
the Bakony mountains. I had decided to use sideroads to reach the village,
and thus departed to the North from the main Szentgotthard-Budapest highway
just after the town of Ajka. The next thing I noted was a directional sign
to "Nmetbnya/Deutschhtten," a bilingual streetsign in the midst of
Hungary, only an hour or so driving distance from Budapest! I made it a
point to not only drive through that village, but find someone to ask for
directions to Bakonybl in German. Fortunately, at the end of the village,
there were three older women standing outside a house. I stopped, asked
whether they understood German (which they said they did) and asked my
question. Their answer was brief (and I was a bit embarrassed of my ruse
anyway, so I left it with this), but what I heard was beautiful old dialect,
as if being among the Heinzen in the Burgenland. It was a wonderful
experience, and I hope to be able to repeat it. Best regards, Fritz."

We've heard from Croatian, German and Jewish Burgenland families, we've even
touched on Gypsies, but todate we had not heard from someone researching
Hungarian family deep within Burgenland. Here is one who also asks some
interesting questions. The author is going about his genealogical search in
exactly the right way. He's done his local homework, identified US families,
knows the immigrant names, their village of origin, is using LDS tapes and
US census records. He has also downloaded our archives. Now he is poised to
explore the Burgenland. He writes:

<< Gerry - Please add me to the BB membership: Mike Gyorog;
; Fond du Lac, WI Researching: Gyo"ro"g (catholic)
Village: Unterwart, Burgenland, Austria. Also"o"r, Vas, Hungary. I am just
beginning to research my family genealogy in the Burgenland. I think I have
identified all the Gyorog's who have lived or are living in the U.S. There
are approximately 30 living Gyorog's (including women whose maiden or married
name is Gyorog) in the U.S. today. All of them are related to one of the
following four individuals who emigrated from Unterwart:
George Gyorog (1912 - 1997) emigrated in 1936
Alexander Gyorog (1904 - 1997) emigrated in 1924 -- This is my grandfather
Mathias Gyorog (1899 - 1950) emigrated in 1923
George Gyorog (1888 - 1973) emigrated in about 1910

My grandfather, Alexander, settled in the Puget Sound region of Washington
state (Lake Stevens and Marysville). He was initially a lumberjack, until
injured by a falling tree, and later a plumber. The other three gentlemen
all settled in St. Louis. I suspect there was a large Hungarian /Burgenland
population in St. Louis much like you described for Allentown, etc. None of
the remaining members of these families have much pre-1900 genealogical
information so we have been unable to determine how the four branches of the
families are related. I checked the on-line Austrian telephone directory and
found 58 current listings for Gyorog's in Austria. I also found one in
Germany. The BB web site and previous newsletters are extremely interesting
and helpful to a beginner like me. I have received newsletters through #27a.
Thank you for all your efforts and willingness to share information with
others!! I have ordered two spools of microfilm from the local LDS and will
be looking at them for the first time later this week. Newsletter #15 and
18a should be particularly helpful (translations of headings and commonly
found terms). I would appreciate any further information or advice you can
provide. A couple of specific questions that I have are: (Questions are
included with the answers)

Hi and welcome to the Burgenland Bunch. Glad to have you. Your case is an
interesting one and I plan to use it as part of a newsletter article so
you'll get good coverage and maybe more complete answers to your questions.
You're going about your search the right way by identifying the US members of
your family first. You have a very different name. Hungarian as opposed to
German or Croatian. Hungarians are a minority in Burgenland since most
Magyars opted to stay with Hungary in 1921. However, the Wart region (border
watch) was quite old and many Hungarians settled around Oberwart and
Unterwart early on. Your family could well have been one of them. As the
village names imply they were part of the border defense or "watch". There
are still Gyorogs in the Unterwart phone book. Do you have their names? I can
send them to you. Do you know the origin of your name? I'm not versed in
Hungarian, but it could mean "someone from Gyor". In the dictionary, "gyor"
is part of a series of words implying "quickness" or "speed". It is added to
words used for fast objects of transportation.

Now to answer your questions. I'll list the question then the answer:
1. 1910 and 1920 Census Records - "What is the easiest way to access these
records to locate all Gyorogs? I have not figured out how to do this."
-Order the census for the county in which your ancestor settled. I wouldn't
think Puget Sound had many people at that time. If you don't want to scan and
search (although the census is organized by voting districts-you'd probably
find all immigrants together in one place) you can order the "Soundex" for
that county, which will give you all entries spelled similar to your name.
Cuts down on look up.

2. George Gyorog (1888-1973) emigrated in about 1910. "What is the easiest
way to confirm an actual date? Census data? Immigration Records? Ship line
passenger lists?"
-Start from year shown on census data. You must know year of immigration
(exact date is best) and port of arrival to find ship manifests.

3. The small village of Unterwart is just southeast of the larger city
Oberwart. "Are there some good sources of information on the specific area?"
-Yes, but in German. I'm including a translated extract for you.

4. I have noted other surnames similar to Gyorog, such as: Gyor, Gyori,
Gyorik, Gyorgy, etc. Do you have any explanation for the evolution of similar
names over time? Changes during naturalization process? Variations due to
trade or profession? Misspellings? "Should I broaden my search beyond the
specific spelling?"
-No, because the name is still spelled the same in Unterwart. Some in the US
may have changed, but since your family didn't, let them find you! See my
comments earlier. Gyorgy is Hungarian for George.

5. There is a county and a city in Hungary by the name of Gyo"r. "Is it
likely that my ancestors migrated from that region to Unterwart?"
-Very possible. Something to look for in older records. Trace the name in the
LDS film as far back as possible looking for other village-city names as
places of birth. Unterwart was called "Alsoor" in Hungarian. Film numbers are
0700647 (church-1828-1895) and 0665225 (civil-1907-20). There are older
records. Read our archives, but exhaust LDS first. Early "Urbar" or
"Visitation" records will probably include the name. My personal feeling,
from reading a little about the creation of the "Wart" is that your Gyorogs
were in the "Wart" area very early (maybe pre 16th Century). Maybe Albert
Schuch will comment when he reads this. I'm copying him, because it's such an
interesting and different case.

You'll be interested in the following:
OBERWART (Felso"o"r); 0 33 52; 7400-Bezirk. Stadt (city). S, at the junction
of routes 57 and 63. SW of Pinkafeld. Includes St. Martin in der Wart. Pop.
6352, houses 1949. Municipal office, all services. Polytechnic Institute.
Bu"rgermeister names from 1920, Sisko, Vogl, Weisch, Groll, Brunner, Orth,
Asboth, Michel, Bertha, Strauhs, Lehmacher, Bo"csko"r, Hatvagner,
Schmaldienst, Piller, Racz. 19 emigrants to Duluth, MN in 1883 along with a
Michael Honigschnabel from Buchschachen. LDS 0700666 (Lutheran), 0700667
(Reformed), 070700665 (Catholic); 0700262-6.

Unterwart is much smaller (pop. 988, 421 houses) and just south east of
Oberwart on the road to Rotenturm. Mentioned as early as 1478, 1498 and 1547.
It was part of the parish of Oberwart until 1797 and became an independent
parish in 1808. This means that records 1797-1828 may stiil be in Unterwart.
Andreas Gyorog, 1900-1983, was Brgermeister from 1942-45. Keep in touch as
your work progresses.

Gerry Berghold forwarded your e-mail, which I have read with great interest.
Please allow a few comments: > I suspect there was a large
Hungarian/Burgenland population in St. Louis much like you described for
Allentown, etc. < Exactly. From reading the weekly "Oberwarther Sonntags
Zeitung" 1923-38 I get the very same impression. (There are also several
references to Burgenland emigrants in Fond du Lac.)

> I checked the on-line Austrian telephone directory and found 58 current
listings for Gyorog's <
Try also <http://email.findit.at>; for e-mail addresses. I have the older
printed version (early in 1997), it includes two addresses for one Thomas
Gyo"ro"g: <> and <> I don't know if
these are still valid, you may wish to check at the above mentioned web site.

> 3. The small village of Unterwart is just southeast of the larger city
Oberwart. Are there some good sources of information on the specific area? <
I own the "Unterwarter Heimatbuch" by Karl Seper (1976), and I have access to
the book "Die obere Wart" (1970's) in the library of the University of
Vienna. Both books include much historical and cultural information on
Unterwart. Any specific questions?

> 4. I have noted other surnames similar to Gyorog, such as: Gyor, Gyori,
Gyorik, Gyorgy, etc. Do you have any explanation for the evolution of similar
names over time? Changes during naturalization process? Variations due to
trade or profession? Misspellings? Should I broaden my search beyond the
specific spelling?<
The "Unterwarter Heimatbuch" gives the following alternative spellings of the
surname Gyo"ro"g (as used throughout the centuries): Gio"ro"gh, Gyo"ro"k,
Gyu"ro"gh. More from the same book:
In a list of the members of the lesser nobility (gentry) living in Unterwart
in the year 1549 the surnames GYERGH and GYEWREG come closest. In 1747
Empress Maria Theresia reconfirmed the noble status of the Unterwart gentry.
Among them were Adam, Janos, Marton, Matyas and Mihaly GYO"RO"G. In 1822 a
Ladislaus JO"RO"GH is a master clothmaker, member of the guild. May be a
misspelling of your surname. In 1848/49 one Matyas GYO"RO"K fought in the
Hungarian Honved army against the Austrian army (during the Hungarian
revolution). On 22 April 1923 the new bells were consecrated. The old ones
had be scrapped during World War I. Johann HORVATH, the priest of Unterwart,
had collected most of the money from emigrants in America (he had spent half
a year there). The emigrants also contributed money for erecting a war
memorial in 1925. Dr. Paul GYO"RO"G, born 3 June 1901 in Unterwart, became a
priest. In 1975, he was priest in Peresznye, Hungary (near Szombathely). In
the list of the village "Richter" (headmen, similar to today's
"Bu"rgermeister") we find: 1807/09 JO"RO"GH Gyo"rgy; 1832/33 GYO"RO"G Laszlo;
1882/84 GYO"RO"G Karoly 1886/88 GYO"RO"G Ferencz; 1893/99 GYO"RO"G Vendel;
1941-45 GYO"RO"G Andreas was Bu"rgermeister. The voluntary fire brigade was
formed in 1904. One Karl GYO"RO"G is listed as a member.

> 5. There is a county and a city in Hungary by the name of Gyo"r. Is it
likely that my ancestors migrated from that region to Unterwart? <
I don't think so, but who can rule it out? As you have seen above, your
surname can be traced back to at least 1549 in Unterwart. It may well be
that the "o"r"-part of your name is a reference to the area called "o"r"
("Wart" in German), which is a fortified border area. Most Hungarians of
Oberwart, Unterwart and nearby Sziget in der Wart are viewed as descendants
of the ennobled peasant border guards settled there in the 10th century or in
the following centuries. I hope that some of this information is of use to
you. Best regards, Albert Schuch (Burgenland Editor of the B.Bunch

THE ABBREVIATION "ING. DOM." (Giles Gerken and Albert Schuch)
Giles, thanks for writing. Questions are always welcome. - Albert. Your
question was: > Behind names of ancestors appears abbrevation ING. DOM. In
1976 a woman in Hungarian Gov. Archives who I paid said it meant Inqulini or
cotter owning a house. I just spent 6 hours viewing LDS film of Mosonszolnok
and find it listed behind various names. It is definitely ING not INQ and
in one case behind female name is shown Ing. Domina (meaning Lady I assume,
and thus would be Dominus for the male = Master. Only thing in Latin I can
find for the ING. is Ingenous (freeborn) <

You are correct in that "inquilinus" will not apply. This is ruled out by the
spelling as well as by the added domina/dominus."ingenuus" can mean "free" or
"noble", hence the people shown as "ING. DOM." will have to be understood as
free/noble men/women, that is: members of the lesser nobility. In contrast to
the 50 or so families of the Magyar nobility (like the Esterhazy, Batthyany,
Szechenyi, etc.), you have to imagine them to have been part of the "great
mass of gentry, some 40.000 strong, often tilling their little farms
themselves and distinguishable from peasants only in terms of legal status".
(Quoting from T.C.W. Blanning's book on Emperor Joseph II (Longman, NY)) What
is meant by the different legal status is that they were not subject to a
domain and didn't have to pay taxes (until 1848).

Your editor recently received a phone call from a newly found 2nd cousin from
his grandfather Sorger's line. They were a family from Rosenberg (Gssing)
who have since contributed immigrants to many places. The call came from
Anna Tapler nee Sorger, who emigrated to Canada in 1956. She is the mother
of member Christina Tapler Laberge. As one of the last to visit the family
homestead (it was torn down and replaced some time ago) Anna was able to
share her memories. I received many answers to questions, some pertaining to
subjects covered in previous newsletters.

Family business. This was a pottery with the main products being milk
containers and pitchers and jugs for milk and wine, including special
containers to keep liquids cool in the fields. Pottery was not marked with
the family name. There was also a family vineyard (in Langzeil) and wine was
produced for family consumption. Many of the Sorger men became bricklayers
(my grandfather Alois Sorger was one) and stone masons. One was even notable
for his stone church carvings.

The family residence (at 225 Rosenberg). This was a larger house than normal.
It had been a Gasthaus at one time and had two very large rooms which were
used as bed rooms. In addition there was a large kitchen and another room.
Sleeping was provided for numerous children by the use of straw pallets. This
was not a wealthy family and the times were hard, but by being very
industrious and working together, everyone was provided for.

Migration. Anna's grandfather told her that the earliest Sorgers came from
Steirmark (The Austrian Province of Styria) hundreds of years ago. Many have
since migrated to the United States, Canada, Switzerland, Graz and various
other places in Austria. None are left in Rosenberg but some are still in
Gssing and Langzeil. Some married women from elsewhere and relocated to
their wives' villages (one was Allerheiligen now known as Pinka Mindszent,
Hungary). A brief glimpse of the past through the memory of a participant.
Worth searching for.

That intrepid surfer, member Anna Kresh has just come up with another
goldmine. For those of you who are seeking emigration data for your immigrant
ancestors, read on:

Subj:Passenger Ships
In searching for info on the ship that brought my father to America I found a
series of web sites listing all the transatlantic passenger ships that sailed
from the Port of Antwerp between 1830 to 1950 at

There is info about the port itself; the lines, owners and agents; and the
ship's name, type, size, speed, line, flag, owner, when built, when put into
service, when removed from service (and why), the source of the data, where a
picture might be found, and perhaps some remarks. Not all data is available
on all the ships (1830-1859 is sketchy). My father emigrated from Kroatisch
Tschantschendorf via Antwerp in 1906, so maybe others in the BB can find
their ancestors' ships here, too. Anna K.

concerning the Burgenland Bunch, contact .

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