BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L ArchivesArchiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 1999-07 > 0931087428
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 38B dtd 30 Jun 1998 (edited)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:23:48 EDT
THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 38B
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND GENEALOGY
(issued biweekly by )
June 30, 1998
(all rights reserved)
This 3rd section of newsletter 38 contains articles on Security, Naming
Conventions, Military Service, More Burgenland Music, Obit from Kszeg and an
Some members have told of problems with respect to passwords and credit card
scams. One was infected with a virus. One member signed on to AOL and was
told they were already logged on!
Passwords can be broken. They should never be derived from screen names or
data available from homepages or web sites. They should be alpha numeric and
changed frequently. Don't use birth dates. No one but you should know them.
Never use common things like your parents' names or place of birth. Something
like XB73A9LQ is just the thing. GBERGHOL would be trouble!
There is concern that credit card scams can be furthered by data available
from published genealogies or genealogies available on web sites. Many people
use parents' names or other data as code references on credit card
applications. Don't do it if you're into genealogy! Further, be super wary of
trading genealogical data concerning relatives still living. Be sure of your
contact. Most general genealogical data is a matter of public record
available to anyone at any time, but it requires direct action to get at it.
Most criminals are lazy, can't be bothered and seek easier prey. Data
available from the net via computer is another matter. It's very easy. Like
all aspects of criminal security, the more difficult you make it, the less
exposure to crime. You'll notice that BB files do not show your address or
other personal data. Sure it's available via phone banks, etc. but that
requires extra effort on the part of someone intent on crime.
Following is an excerpt from a recent article from Eastman's Online Genealogy
Newsletter, title - Genealogy Home Pages Invite Rip-Offs? "A recent issue of
U.S. News and World report had an article written by Margaret Mannix that
makes for provocative reading. Ms. Mannix writes: Does your family have a
home page on the Internet? If so, you might want to reconsider how much
personal information you post online. Con artists who steal others'
identities, get credit in their names, then leave innocent people with a
mountain of debt to fight and ruined credit to clean up are discovering the
charms of the Net."
She also writes "thousands of netizens are unknowingly making it easier for
thieves to steal their identities by posting individual home pages, family
genealogies, and resumes." One item that she mentions is the fact that many
credit card companies protect the privacy of their customers by using the
mother's maiden name as a password. You can quickly see how posting one's
genealogy on the Web helps a con artist bypass that security.
If you have an interest in this topic, you may want to read the full article.
It is available online at:
To be blunt, I think Ms. Mannix' article overstates the "danger" and is a bit
of a sensationalist article written for the popular press. However, the
"dangers" she describes should not be dismissed too quickly. Credit card
thieves and other rip-off artists were successfully obtaining the personal
information of unsuspecting victims long before the invention of the World
Wide Web. But why make it even easier for them? Posting personal information
about yourself or your living relatives invites problems." (end of extract)
That old problem "computer virus". Again, you won't get one from email. You
can be infected by attached files! That's why, I rarely use them. I'd much
sooner use multiple email. I always check the source of files before
downloading. If I don't know the source, I don't download. I also download to
a drive ("A" with floppy) other than my hard disk. Limits downloading to
1.44Meg but it's safe. Run virus detector before copying to hard disk. I also
run virus scan after every net session just in case. Downloading from servers
like AOL is also fairly safe as they use anti-virus scans. Eternal vigilance
and awareness is the price of computer security.
NAMING CONVENTIONS (Bradford, Berghold, Schuch)
>> ... 300 people all with the same name, "Josephus Bauer!" ...What I have
is: Josephus, Josephi, Joseph Bauer and many others just like that. I believe
I'm looking at Latin, Hungarian and Austrian spellings! But I wonder if there
is some sort of naming convention that differentiates between the father and
the son when the first names are the same? <<
Rosemary (Bradford), I'm sure you're looking at different language versions
of the same name. There may be a senior-junior naming convention that I'm not
familar with. I'm copying Albert. maybe he knows of one. Good question. Gerry
Hello Gerry and Rosemary, while "cleaning up" my e-mail-inbox I just
discovered this unanswered question. Please accept my apologies for the delay
in answering: Sorry to say so, but I can spot no "naming convention" here.
"Josephus" is the Latin form of "Joseph", and "Josephi" is Latin for "of
Joseph". In fact, both "Joseph" and "Bauer" are VERY common (sur)names!
(There also was a "Josef Bauer" in my native village Kleinpetersdorf in
Southern Burgenland. Only reason we lost the Bauer surname in our village is
that both of his sons were casualties of WW I.)
Re: naming conventions in German: Apart from senior-junior (shortend to
"sen." - "jun." or "sr." - "jr.", we also use the the German abbreviations
"d.." (der ltere - the elder) and "d.J." (der Jngere - the younger). Albert
BURGENLAND MILITARY GENEALOGY (Joe Gilly, Gerry Berghold-copy of a pre BB
newsletter email exchange)
<< My great grandfather Michael Feiertag's marriage record (3 Feb 1876) lists
his occupation as "Honved-Soldat, 76 Reg. aus Neustift." I can't find a
translation for Honved in the Hungarian dictionary. Do you know the meaning?
Answer: "Honved" is Hungarian and translates Hungarian soldier. With various
endings it can be "honvedelem" (home defense) or "honvedezred" (regiment of
Hungarian soldiers) or "honvedhuszar" (Hungarian hussar) or "honvedseg"
(Hungarian territorial army). The "e" would have a diacritical mark ' over
it. Your g-grandfather would thus be a "soldier of the Hungarian Army-76th
Regiment-Headquartered at Neustift.
During WW I, most southern Burgenlanders served in either KuK
Infanterie-Regiment Nr 83 (Steinamanger-Szombathely) or Honved Huszar Regt.
Nr 18 (Odenburg-Sopron). This would translate Imperial and Royal Infantry
Regiment 83 headquartered at Szombathely and Hungarian Light Cavalry Regiment
Number 18 -Sopron. When either of these two regiments saw combat, the
resultant casualties could be devastating to any particular village as the
men from a village tended to be together in the same platoon or company..
During WWII, I understand that most draftees would have served in a Styrian
regiment since the Burgenland was attached to Styria by the Nazis. I imagine:
however, that many volunteers were in the German Luftwaffe, Wafen SS or even
the Viennese Hoch und Deutschmeister Regiment. Two of my Gilly cousins
(Helena Gilly's father and uncle) died in WWII, one in Finland and one in
Russia. I don't know their unit alhough another Gilly served 5 years in the
German Signal Corps.
The military organizations changed over the years of course, hence your 76th
Regt. During the Napoleonic Wars (period 1790-1814) the men living in our
area could have served in any one of dozens of regiments named after the
aristocrat who raised or led them or the place where they were raised like:
Line Infantry Graf Sam. Gyuli -1802 Esterhazy, Line Infantry Furst Anton
Esterhazy, Eisenburger Hussars, etc.
My source (Austrian-Hungarian Army of the Napoleonic Wars -Osprey, London
1986) lists 64 Line Infantry Regiments of which at least 15 were Hungarian.
There were at least that many cavalry regiments (Cuirassiers, Dragoons, Light
& Heavy, Hussars, Uhlans). There were also "Grenz (border) Regiments" of
irregular infantry and horse. Prior to that time military history gets pretty
fuzzy as to organizations with many mercenary groups from everywhere plus
local defense settlers of which Croatian colonists were prominent.
<< Why would the Swedes, who were Protestants, join forces with the R.C.
Hapsburgs and their allies to fight the Turks (at the battle of Szt,
Gotthard) and how large were their company units?>>
Probably mercenaries. I doubt if all the 30 Years War mercenaries went home.
They probably didn't have the money! Then again, for a Protestant, although
Moslems were only a shade lower than Catholics in those days-heh, heh, they
were Moslems none the less. Like the Irish, who would enlist in the English
army, but would have preferred to fight against them! I found a Berghold
(pre 1664) who was a "reiter" (cavalryman?) in the Army of the Prince of
Weimar (Saxony). The Bergholds were Lutherans, but I'm not sure of the Prince.
The strength of a Company in the older Austro/Hungarian armies was not as
large as our WWII units. Geoffrey Parker in "The Thirty Years' War", Military
Heritage Press, 1987 mentions a uniform order for only 600 uniforms to outfit
a newly formed Bavarian regiment (normally 12 or more companies-4 to 6 to a
battalion, 2 battalions to a regiment plus various headquarters, artillery
and support organizations). So a company then wouldn't be much larger than 50
men, size of our modern platoon. He also mentions by the way, on page 192,
"in 1644 a Bavarian regiment, for which detailed records have survived, could
boast men from ....sixteen national groups, of which the largest were Germans
(534 soldiers) and Italians (217), with a smaller number of Poles, Slovenes,
Croats, etc....and IRISH! There were even 14 Turks." This book unfortunately
is mostly concerned with national politics and doesn't have much detail.
The "Osprey" Men -At-Arms book of the Napoleonic Wars (136 years later) shows
a grenadier company as being 112 strong ( 140 in wartime). This included a
Captain (Hauptmann), First Lieutenant (Oberleutnant), Sub-Lieutenant
(Unterlieutnant), Ensign (Fhnrich), Sgt. Major (Feldwebel), four Corporals
(our 3 stripe sergeant), a quartermaster (Fourierschtzen), 3 musicians, 8
Gefrieters (corporals), and a Zimmermann (pioneer). This varies somewhat
throughout the various branches of the Army (Artillery, Cavalry, etc.) and
also varied over the years. In 1767 for instance, an Austrian company had 116
men. I doubt if a Swedish company at the time of the Szt. Gotthard
(Mogersdorf) battle comprised more than 50-60 men. These non Austrian (non
Hapsburg) "companies" were generally led by a professional "captain"
(condottierei) who raised and led a band of mercenaries of varying strength,
contracting services to anyone who could pay. Believe the "company" idea came
from the "organization of ten" of earlier armies. A leader of ten, a leader
of 100, a leader of 1000, a leader of ten thousand. Ten men would be called a
section, led by a -decurion-equiv. sgt.). 100 a company -eqiuv. captain,
Roman centurion. Mongol -one horsetail leader of 100). Today of course, with
ancillary groups, we generally speak in terms of 160 (heavy weapons)-200
(rifle) men as strength of a Company.
What is important to genealogy is that if you know your ancestor's regiment,
the LDS has microfilm records of births, marriages and deaths which may have
taken place under military service, recorded by the regiment's chaplains.
I've never looked at any of these (there are a lot listed in the catalog).
Also Military Muster Rolls. Some of the larger military establishments
(headquarters and military schools) would have been at Eisenstadt
(Kismarton), Neusiedl am See and Rust (and have reords which include deaths
at various field hospitals).
(If any of the Burgenland Bunch know the organizations in which their
ancestors served, I'd appreciate getting the data.)
MORE ON BURGENLAND MUSIC (from Tom Glatz)
Here is a good address (for music): Burgenlaendisches Volksliedwerk,
Freiheitsplatz 1, A-7000, Eisenstadt.
The Spielmusik Schoenfeldinger CD that Albert Schuch mentioned was advertised
in the above publication. Bob Strauch gets it & often and sends me copies.
Rudi Pietsch & Sepp Gmasz are connected with this organization. I think you
should write & ask to get on the mailing list to recieve their small
newsletter. Then you will learn about everything. I don't know how
cooperative Rudi Pietsch will be in answering any inquiries about his music
for sale. You or anyone else would probably be just better off sending any
questions to the above address. It might be nice to send a copy of a BB
newsletter mentioning Austrian & Burgenland music.
Other cd's mentioned in this newsletter: There is a series called Musik Der
Regionen. As of June 18th, there were 9 of them. I think the last one was
Heideboden & Seewinkel. There are notices of events: August 18-23 there was
held the 16 Burgenlaendische Musikantenwoche in Lockenhaus in the castle. Bob
Strauch also sent me a letter from the retailer who sells the cds. (There are
actually 10 now.) I am thinking about getting them. The price was 2000
shillings for everything (Im steirischen Ennstal, Wienermusik, Mei Schatz is
mei Schicksal, aba lustig san d'Leit, Wann i von Puachberg auf Meisenbach
geh, Im Herzen von Oesterreich, is a Landl a kloans, Zwischen Nockbergen und
Niedern Tauern, Heideboden und Seewinkel, walserisch und waelderisch, are all
of the titles). They are sold separately for 250 schillings.
Albert Schuch also writes: Gerry, Tom, some more info on Burgenland music
follows below. I also looked into an old issue of the Burgenlaendische
Gemeinschaft newsletter (3/4-1995). It has some good information on Walt
Gro"ller, the musician from Allentown who was recently featured on Austrian
TV. It says there that he has made more than 20 records.
The "Heideboden und Seewinkel" CD is part 9 of the 10 "Musik der Regionen"
CDs. It is subtitled "Dorfmusik und Volksgesang aus dem noerdlichen
Burgenland", includes 23 pieces amounting to 55 minutes. Most songs are
German, some Croatian. I like the CD, and am sure the other nine are also
very good. The musicians are mainly from Weiden, Apetlon, Frauenkirchen and
Quoting from the (English!) liner notes of the CD: Regional Folk Music From
Austria: ... The various regions of Austria boast a fascinating diversity of
music today, although it is seldom perfomed at high profile events or before
large audiences. ... The people who sing and play on these CDs were recorded
with a mobile sound studio in their own familiar surroundings, that is at
home, in local pubs and restaurants, in mountain farms. ...I bought the CD
from one of the musicians for 200 Schillings. In Viennese record shops it
costs 220 - 270 Schillings. The CDs of the "Musik der Regionen" series (or
more information about them) can be ordered from: Daniela Schwarz, Anton
Baumgartnerstrae 44/A2/213, A-1230 Wien, Austria. e-mail:
INTERESTING EMAIL RE OBIT (Fritz Knigshofer to Viktor Fischer)
In my visit to the library here in Budapest, I called up the film of the
"Gnser Zeitung" of 1924, and pursued an obit of your great-grandfather
Johann Gratzl based on the date of death which we already had thanks to
Albert's (Schuch) find in the OSZ. There it was, and it contains very good
new information for you. I am translating the full obit and copying Gerry as
well, as you two might consider it for possible publication in our newsletter.
Gnser Zeitung of May 4, 1924, page 2
Johann Gratzl +. A fellow citizen [of Kszeg] respected by everybody and
everywhere, the flour mill owner Johann Gratzl, departed on last Tuesday, at
age 80, into a better other world. Until the very last days, he conducted
his daily work with the usual industriousness. Coming from Bozsok a few
decades ago, he made his residence in our town and took over the Kranz flour
mill, which he then spurred to increased operational performance. Not only
did Gratzl by his hard work set an example in his business and the local
economy, he also took a lively interest in the life of the community, where
he conducted the function and duty of town council member
("Stadtreprsentant") dynamically and with sensibility. His funeral, which
took place last Thursday starting from the cemetery chapel, provided an
opportunity for the citizenship to demonstrate by the extraordinary numbers
showing up, the adoration which the deceased had enjoyed among his
compatriots. The fire brigade and other organizations gave him last company.
His widow, two sons and four daughters, the families Gratzl, Techet and Dr.
Hechinger, were left behind by his death in sorrow.-----end of obit -------
Bozsok (Poschendorf) is on the way from Rechnitz to Kszeg. This is where I
now suspect would likely be recorded the births of at least some of the
Gratzl/Hfler children. As for the son-in-law Dr. Hechinger, in
Austro-Hungary the doctor-title would not be reserved only for denoting
medical doctors (like on the US East Coast), i.e., the Dr. Hechinger could
alternatively have been a high school teacher, an advocate, etc.
The same issue of the newspaper also included a death notice published by
his family (page 4), but this notice provides no extra information except
that it makes clear (not at all surprisingly) that Johann Gratzl was a
grandfather. Viktor, your Gratzl ancestors were truly a solid family, getting
stronger in each generation.
In my relatively modest search of Der Volksfreund (only one year of issues
today, 1914/15), the news were dominated by the outbreak of WW I, and that
also refers to the only two items (perhaps really only one item) which
directly relate to your family. The issue of November 21, 1914 reports on
page 5 that Felix Techet of Fels Beled underwrote newly issued war bonds in
the amount of 50,000 crowns, while a report on December 5, 1914, page 3,
lists the same feat for Techet Bdog, also from Fels Beled. Perhaps Bdog
is Felix in Hungarian! In any case, this was a huge sum. The Techets must
have been one of the wealthiest families of Western Hungary. Since this was
a war bond, I wonder whether all of this money was not eventually lost.
THANKS FROM A MEMBER
Many thanks to Gerry, Joseph, and Fritz for helping solve the octavalista
riddle. An Email to the Burgenland Bunch and I got an answer to a question
that had puzzled me for years. Bob Schmidt
HEILIGENKREUZ CONFUSION (from A. Dax)
<< Am I mistaken? Are Heiligenkreuz in the Burgenland and Heiligenkreuz im
Wienerwald two different towns? I was reading some information on the web
and came across the difference in listing, so I was confused and had hoped,
as you are so well informed about the Burgenland, you might be able to help.
Thank you in advance for your attention to this query. >>
ANSWER: Oh my yes. Don't get them confused. The "official" name of the
Burgenland Heiligenkreuz is "Heiligenkreuz im Lafnitzal" (in the valley of
the Lafnitz river). The other is "Heiligenkreuz bei Baden". (by Baden-a spa
in the Wienerwald). It's known for its ancient (1133) Cistercian monastery.
Both it and Baden (a wonderful old empire resort town) are worth a visit. The
one in Burgenland is right on the Hungarian border. There is a custom
crossing there. It is the main southern border crossing. It is in Bezirk
Jennersdorf and includes the village of Poppendorf about which I'll be doing
a whole issue soon. There is also a Heiligenkreuz am Wassen in southern
Styria and probably some in Germany.
END OF NEWSLETTER-EDITED & DISTRIBUTED BY GERALD J. BERGHOLD, Contact
for information about the Burgenland Bunch.