Archiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 1999-07 > 0931264038

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Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 43 dtd 15 Sept 1998 (edited)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:27:18 EDT

(issued biweekly by )
September 15, 1998
(all rights reserved)

This first section of the 3 section newsletter features a note on our recent
Staff Increase, articles on the villages of Wrtherberg and Hackerberg, the
Centennial of the Assassination of Empress Elizabeth, Entry of US Events in
Hungarian Records, Gilly Cousin Found, Interesting Survey Response, Proposed
Book on Veszprem County, Hungary and the Missing Links Newsletter.


For some time Hap Anderson, Albert Schuch, Anna Kresh and I have served as
the staff of the Burgenland Bunch. We have frequently been assisted by
members whose articles have shown that they have considerable expertise in
particular Burgenland areas. Some of them have now agreed to join the staff
as Contributing Editors. Their names and areas of specialization will be
carried on the masthead (found at the end of each newsletter) as shown below.
Feel free to communicate with any of them if you have special questions, but
please check our archives first to see if your question has already been
addressed. Our profound thanks for their cooperation and willingness to
serve. In addition, Hap Anderson informs us that he has securred a volunteer
who has agreed to help him update the Homepage. We thus hope to speed up
Homepage list entries which have fallen behind as a result of our influx of
new members.

(see most recent newsletter fro present staff addresses)

BURGENLAND VILLAGES (the Father Leser series, extracted and translated by
Albert Schuch-a good place to look for an early mention of your family name)

36) Wrtherberg
Situated in the hills at the border to Styria. Settled by Styrians from
Wrth. Also part of the (Styrian!) parish Wrth. A "Conscription der Wrther
Berg Sllner im Stintzer Hotter" (list of Wrtherberg Sllners in Stinatz
territory) from 1750 includes the following families: SCHALK (9), PUIKL (5),
FRAGENHOFER, KRANZ, WURM, LASCHOLL, FOSCHING (1 each). All in all 60 families
in 60 houses.

One fourth of Wrtherberg was property of Count SZECHENYI - no Urbar for this
part. An Urbar for 1789 includes: SCHALK (9), RAT (9), PUIKL (6), SUMMER (4),
TASCHNER, EHRENHOFER, WURM, GLOTZ, SPANN (1 each). A total of 65 families,
all BATTHYANY subjects. Number of inhabitants: 1858: 519; 1870: 606; 1923:
555; 22 casualties in WW I. Part of Wrth parish since 1818, earlier at times
also part of the parishes Neudau and Hartberg. Teachers: Georg ADLER (1789),
Josef SCHALK (1870), Johann HAMAN (1873-86), Karl MAAR (1886-88), Karl
BRUNNER (1888-1925), Oskar POTSCH (1925-30). (source: V+H Nr. 11/1958)

37) Hackerberg
South of Wrtherberg. The south-eastern part of the village settled by Croats
from Stinatz, hence called "Stinatzerberg" (surnames: KIRISITS, ZSVITKOVITS,
STIPSITS, etc.). The main part of Hackerberg was settled from Neudau and
Wrth (Styria), surnames are: GLATZ, PIEBER, MUJK, TASCHNER, SCHUSTER, etc.
Number of inhabitants: 315 in 1870, 547 in 1930 (71 houses). 18 casualties in
WW I. The Croatian part belongs to Stinatz parish, the German part to Neudau
parish. Croatian pupils went to Stinatz, German pupils to Neudau, until the
state built an elementary school in Hackerberg in 1875. Teachers: Karl
STEINHFER (1875-86), Maxentius EIGL (1886-1923), Philippine STRICKER
(1923-27), Ferdinand KELLNER (1924-30), second teacher Margarethe ZEHETNER
(1927-30). (source: V+H Nr. 11-12/1958)

Elisabeth, second daughter of Duke Max of Bavaria, wife of Emperor Franz
Joseph at age 16, Empress of Austria and Queen of Hungary was one of the
most beautiful, intelligent and self willed women of her time. Her beauty
mesmerized all who came into contact with her. As Queen of Hungary, she
mastered the language and became a life long favorite with the Hungarians.
Her mother was the Duchess Ludovika, sister to King Ludwig I of Bavaria.

Quoting from the book "Sissi" by Brigitte Hamann:
"The fairy -like beauty of the Empress of Austria was proclaimed all over the
world, her reputation nurtured by reports from foreign diplomats and the
effusive accounts of international journalists. Many of the curious visited
Vienna mainly in the hope of setting eyes on the fabulously beautiful

Unfortunately her life was full of tragedy. A child bride, she was not ready
for the onerous court duties thrust upon her. Her mother-in-law and many
functionaries of the Viennese Court treated her as child and intrigued
against her; her husband, although madly in love with her, had affairs with
other women and neglected her for affairs of state. She became obsessed with
dieting and exercise. She was not allowed to raise her own children. One
child died in infancy and her son, the heir apparent (Crown Prinz Rudolf)
committed suicide at Mayerling after killing his mistress. She often absented
herself from the court and traveled widely residing at Madeira, Corfu,
Greece, the Adriatic coast of Croatia, and Switzerland. Enchanted with the
poetry of Heinrich Heine she spent long hours writing poetry. She was a
superb horse woman appearing at many equestrian affairs. Following the death
of her son, she became the "mourning mother" of Europe, wandering aimlessly
with a small retinue of courtiers and drifting into melancholy and
depression. She was stabbed by an insane assassin named Luccheni in Geneva
and died on 10 September 1898. Her memorial can be seen today in the
Volskgarten in Vienna.

Having once seen the the 1864 portrait of her as the young Empress by Franz
Winterhalter, I've always wanted a copy for my library. Just recently I found
the new book "Sissi", by Brigitte Hamann, Taschen Books, 1997, Benedikt
Taschen Verlag, Gmbh. Purchased for $8.95 plus $3.00 postage from Edward R.
Hamilton, Bookseller, Falls Village, CT 06031-5000. The Winterhalter portrait
(also serves as cover picture) plus many others in color are included with a
biography. Also included are Elisabeth's bridal portrait at age 16, the
Winterhalter portraits "Empress Elisabeth with her hair down", and the
Horowits painting "Elisabeth, Empress of Austria and Queen of Hungary". The
art work is superb and the book is a fitting tribute to this fascinating
woman, "Die Kaiserin" of our emigrant ancestors. Gerry Berghold

Tighe-Brown, Gerry Berghold, Fritz Knigshofer)
Ed. -note: a few years ago as I was reading LDS copies of civil records
1895-1921, I was astounded to see some 1907 US births recorded in Hungarian
civil records a few years after the events took place in America. This was
the first indication I had that my Berghold grandparents had returned to the
Burgenland for a brief period before emigrating again in 1912. I also spotted
other records showing various cities in the US as places of birth, marriage,
etc. You too may encounter some.

Maureen writes: I have a question for you re: the civil registers' birth,
marriage, and death records between 1895-1920: why did so many people who had
left Deutschkreutz later send back information to have family members
registered as being born, married, or died? Necessary to do so? Advantages?

My answer: There are two reasons for this. If you compare the date of the
record with that of the event you'll find there is usually a considerable
time lag. Also it's kind of peculiar to find entries for events in "Nord

(1) Many emigrants returned and when they did, they had their US vital
statistics re-entered in Hungarian records by the village clerk. My own
grandfather Berghold did this when he returned (he emigrated again
permanently a few years later) and his US marriage and the birth of two
chldren in the US were recorded. In this case I have copies of both the US
records and the Hungarian records.

(2) Other emigrants never intended to stay in the US. They planned to earn
enough money to acquire property back home and then return. As a result they
often reported marriages and births. If you refer to the earlier Hungarian
forms (they became simpler over the years), you'll notice they start with
legalese like "Appeared before me, the OFFICIAL of such and such a place one
NAME from SO and SO who reports that a child named NAME was born DATE in the
city of Allentown, Nord Amerika to FATHER from XXXX , house number YYY. After
the particulars for the father, the same data is given for the mother. It is
then signed by the reporter and the OFFICIAL. This means to me that he was in
receipt of a letter or other communication in which he was asked to have the
event recorded. I have a couple of these also. The only ones that perplex me
are the reports of US deaths. Doesn't seem to be much reason for this unless
it had something to do with the transfer of Hungarian property.

Advantages? I can think of a number of them, all having to do with property
as above or future status in Hungary. If you remember Fritz Knigshofer's
remarks re "Zustandigkeit", you'll remember the need to establish "belonging
to" for possible future social benefits.

Another factor that comes to mind is that these emigrants were betwixt and
between with regard to citizenship. Living in the US but not yet being
naturalized, some may have felt intimidated and fearful of not following
Hungarian requirements. By the way, I've also seen records like this in
church entries.

Fritz writes: There is not much more that I could add on this. Gerry
described the possibilities (explanations) just about as I would have. In
reading the Hungarian civil records (starting October 1895), like you I have
come across these entries of vital events that happened in America. If we
could get our hands on the registration law that had introduced civil
recording in Hungary, then the impetus (obligations defined by the law) may
become clearer.

>From my interpretation, there appears to have been an obligation on the
Austrian half of the Hungarian Monarchy to report back to the original notary
district in Hungary any vital events related to visitors or residents whose
place of belonging was in Hungary. I am not sure, though, whether the
obligation was on the affected (Hungarian) subject or on the place (civil
administration or church... there was no civil registration in Austria until
well into the 1920s or even 30s) in Austria, where the event took place.
Probably the former, which would also explain why emigrants to the US tried
to have American vital events recorded in their home district. However, no
such reporting obligation existed for events taking place in the Hungarian
half of the Monarchy, even if registration was not in the village/district of
belonging. Therefore, any event happening in Hungary and relating to a person
belonging to a place in Hungary was recorded only in the notary district of
where the event happened. However, vital events happening to "Hungarians"
outside Hungary had to be reported back to the district/village which the
affected person belonged to. Hungarian civil records covering today's
Burgenland contain many entries reported from Austria, especially from Vienna
which attracted many people from Western Hungary, and also entries on events
in other parts of the Austrian half of the Monarchy and in North America.

>From 10/1895 till 1907, these foreign events were recorded (in the duplicates
we have access to via LDS) in a different, less structured format than
genuine local events and thus are easily recognizable on account of their
form alone. From 1908 onwards, the duplicates have only a single row
structure with various columns for each vital event, and have the same format
for local and foreign events. As Gerry wrote, foreign events are typically
reported late, i.e., would be outside the normal sequential date sequence.

(Ed.-note:Having found cousins myself via the BB, I'm always pleased when
others do likewise.) Joe writes: I recently had an interesting experience. My
grandfather had a brother Herman Gilly who settled in St. Louis, MO, operated
a restaurant and had two daughters. That is the only information I had. We
never had any contact with them. I had given up on ever learning anything
about them. A month or so ago I received a letter from Helen Gilly Grab, one
of the surviving daughters who now lives in Bradenton, FL. She was my
father's 1st cousin. Her son, Bill Grab, is a major in the Army stationed in
Texas. It seems that Bill is an enthusiastic genealogical researcher who
contacted my Neustift cousins in search of family history. My cousins
replied, giving him much good information and my address. I've been in touch
with both Helen and Bill (who would be my second cousin). Bill was interested
in our BB group, so I urged him to contact you. For the record, his e-mail
address is <>. I believe you once mentioned a possible Mirth
connection. Helen's mother was Giselda Mirth. Her Grandfather was Andreas

I owe you a reply on the questionnaire. As you know I am one of the bbunch
members who found the bbunch via the home page after searching on the
Altavista engine. I still return to the home page, mostly to scan the member
list and perform village searches there (i.e., is there a bbunch member who
searches xxx village?) -- from the member list, as the village list is a bit
behind in updating. One purpose to search the member list is to get the
e-mail address of a member. Occasionally, I will also search the archive of
newsletters, then the links, etc.

The newsletter, and e-mail among the bbunch members, are among the most
information-loaded communications I know of. Very little waste. Compare it
to the hunroots list where 19 out of 20 e-mail are just useless. Therefore,
I am a fan of exactly the way you are managing the bbunch and its
communications. This is an extremely democratic group where everybody
gains.I know I'll miss the bbunch communications during my next European
vist. My colleagues tell me that I will have no access to our (old)
All-in-One mail system from the office where I'll be working. Considering
that I can count myself as a pioneer of the computer networking field, having
been an active member of the International Network Working Group (INWG) in
the exciting years of Internet creation, I know I now act like the proverbial
cobbler who has the worst shoes himself. My only excuse is (and you will
surely understand it) that I have worked with computers too long to get
overly excited about them.

(Ed.-note: Ernest copied us on a note he sent to Veszprem searcher George
Tebolt which will be of interest to those of you who have Hungarian ancestors
from the area to the east of the Burgenland border. You may wish to contact
him at < ) >

Ernest writes: In a message to the Burgenland Bunch, you wrote:<<Researching
TIBOLD and EDL. Both grandparents Michael Tibold and Marie Edl were born in
Bakonyszucs, Hungary. They married about 1890 and settled in New York City
about 1898. George Tebolt, Spencertown, N.Y. E mail

I checked my database of immigrants from Veszprem County, Hungary and found
that I have several Edls and two Tibolds, not from Bakonyszucs but from
nearby villages in Veszprem County. I do not have any information on your
grandparents but I would like to have more info about them for my database.
What church did they attend in NYC: Most Holy Redeemer or St. Joseph
Yorkville, or St. Stephens? How far have you gotten in your research on your
family? I have researched most information available on my German-Hungarian
ancestors back to the beginning of the 18th century.

I am presently involved in research for a book which I will publish titled:
"Ethnic German Immigrants from Veszprem County, Hungary". The book will have
sections about the German villages, their settlement history, architecture,
ethnic culture, agriculture, origins of the settlers, occupations,
socio-poitical problems and genealogy. I have compiled a database of more
than 3,500 immigrants from church marriage records in NJ, NYC, CT and PA
which I will also include. I am searching more churches and I expect the
database to reach 5,000. Any information that you can furnish to me about
your immigrant grandparents and family will be appreciated. I would also like
to have information about any other immigrants from Veszprem County, Hungary
that you know of. Naturally I am also interested in names and addresses of
descendants of theVeszpremer immigrants to whom I can offer my book for sale
when it appears in about 2 years.

I mentioned MISSING LINKS in a previous email. Below are excerpts from the
current issue that should be of interest to our members.

MISSING LINKS: A Weekly Newsletter for Genealogists; Vol. 3, No. 35, 28
August 1998; Circulation: 13,770+, Copyright (c) 1996-98 Julia M. Case and
Myra Vanderpool Gormley

by Myra Vanderpool Gormley, CG <>
"They Became Americans: Finding Naturalization Records and Ethnic Origins,"
by Loretto Dennis Szucs, 294 pp., 8 1/2x11", softcover, ISBN 0-916478-71-X,
$24.90 postpaid; available from Ancestry, P.O. Box 990, Orem, UT 84059;
1-800-262-3787 or on the Web at: <http://www.ancestry.com>;

In the "Introduction," Szucs writes that "While working at the National
Archives, I witnessed the great excitement of researchers as they saw for the
first time the signature of an ancestor whose decision to become an American
had profoundly affected their own lives. More than once, I saw a researcher
looking in awe at a naturalization photograph of a parent or a grandparent
he or she had never seen before ... Words simply can't describe the
spiritual quality of a meeting made possible through a simple piece of

"How do I find citizenship papers?" is a frequent question of genealogists,
along with "How do I locate ship passenger lists?" There probably is more
misinformation on these two subjects than any other American genealogical
research problems -- no doubt due to the complexity of the process and the
naturalization laws as well as a misunderstanding most of us have about ship
passenger lists.

This new book is divided into seven chapters:
-- The Naturalization Process in the United States: Historical Background
-- How to Find Immigration and Naturalization Information
-- Naturalization Courts and Process
-- Published Naturalization Records and Indexes
-- Immigration and Naturalization Service
-- Naturalization Records in the National Archives
-- Finding Naturalization Information on the Internet

Immigration Chronology, Selected Addresses and an INS Form (which can be
photocopied and submitted to Immigration and Naturalization Services for a
search) can be found in three separate appendices. Chapter Six is an
excellent one providing details about the naturalization records found at the
National Archives and its regional archives, plus a breakdown, by state,
showing which courts and what dates exist in the regional archives. This is a
"must have" book for libraries, and it will be a valuable reference addition
to your personal genealogy library.

MISSING LINKS is available gratis to anyone who has an internet e-mail
address. If you have friends or family members who are interested in
genealogical research, please let them know about MISSING LINKS and that all
they need to do to receive it is send an e-mail message to
<> and include ONLY the world SUBSCRIBE
in the subject and in the body of the message.

ARCHIVES at <ftp://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/mlnews>;.

<http://www.rootsweb.com>; for hosting MISSING LINKS.

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