BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L ArchivesArchiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 1999-07 > 0931347491
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 46B dtd 15 Nov 1998 (edited)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:38:11 EDT
THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 46B
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND GENEALOGY
(issued biweekly by )
November 15, 1998
(all rights reserved)
This third section of the 3 section newsletter features articles on
Nagykanizsa, Hungary, Der Bankerlsitzer, Szentpeterfa, Hungary-Northampton,
PA, Kornfeind Name-Case Study (includes some data on The Domain of
Schlaining), Mail from Gssing and a Music Message from Greece.
WORLD GEN WEB QUERY-GERMAN NAME OF NAGYKANIZSA
(Ed. Note-The confusion resulting from Burgenland area place names having
both Hungarian and German names is perhaps the single most difficult factor
in tracing family. Having finally solved it for myself, it was the desire to
share it, more than anything else, which led to the creation of the
Burgenland Bunch. Everything else stems from that. The following is a case in
Burgenland Province, Austria Queries A new message, "(what is the) German
name of Nagykanizsa?," was posted by Keiron Rad.
Answer: Per my 1900 Baedeker, the German name is Gross-Kirchen, it was a
market town with 20,500 inhabitants. Rail junction for Steinamanger
(Szombathely). Churches from 1702, 1774 and 1820. Thury family prominent.
That's all I have.
Reply: Thanks Gerry....incredible discovery. Nagykanizsa finally revealed as
the birthplace and "Staatsgehrigkeit" of my paternal grandfather. Is this
going to unravel some mystery!! <smiles>Keiron Rad.
RUDERSDORF-SOUTHERN BURGENLAND BANKERLSITZER
Peter Sattler, editor writes: der (new edition of) bankerlsitzer is ready to
be read on the net by addressing
sattler peter, hauptstrae 27, A-7571 Rudersdorf,
SZENTPETERFA, HUNGARY-NORTHAMPTON, PA (from John Lavendoski)
I have been working with the church records of Szentpeterfa, Hungary for the
past few years in an investigation of my maternal grandfather's roots. Over
the past few months, I have been discussing the phenomenon with many
Northampton-ites, of the HUGE Szentpeterfa influx to Northampton, PA during
the first 2 decades of this century. My mother was born there and many close
relatives still live there. Just for fun, I decided to look into possible
relationships with some people I went to grade school with at Our Lady of
Hungary School on Newport Avenue in Northampton. The results were telling...
I basically uncovered information which strongly suggests that the entire
group of descendants of Szentpeterfa immigrants (most especially those of
Croatian ethnic origins) are probably no more distantly related than 4th or
5th cousins!!! So far, every single Croatian tree which I have looked into
from Northampton, PA crosses my own and each others at some point within the
past 200 years (about 6-8 generations). German names and Hungarian names
also appear frequently, but some "ethnic bias" does appear to have influenced
marriage choices over the years (Germans are more likely to marry Germans,
I have spent about 500 hours looking at the Szentpeterfa records thus far and
have begun mapping out every single collateral relationship from the 1800s
which crosses my tree at any point. So far, I have about 800 names entered
in my database within Family Tree Maker. I have a dream that over the course
of my life (I am 31) I will eventually get the whole of the available town
records (1795-1895) into my computer. I estimate that there are about 5,000
names in the records, so I have years of work ahead of me!!!
I am using the technique of going over all of my own collateral relatives
(great aunts, 2nd great uncles, etc.) marriage records, and then mapping out
the families into which they married. Recently, I have added several other
families from Northampton and I have spent more time on death records to lead
me to such things as second marriages, etc.
Most difficult to deal with are the death records...it is often impossible to
pinpoint exactly which person they are referring to since only names and ages
are generally given between 1795-about 1840. Also frustrating is the fact
that the whole population gravitated toward a VERY small number of Christian
names and eschewed middle names (at least in the church records). After
looking at 20 or so different people all named Jan Teklits, or Frank
Jurasits, or Michael Stubits, or (God forbid) Anna Geosits!! within a 20 year
span...my eyes start to glaze over!!! (What did they call each other in
school??!!?? How did they refer to one another in casual conversation??!!??
It must have been VERY confusing!!!)
Anyway, I just wanted to get the information out there that I am working on
this monumental project...interested parties, please don't inundate me with
email...give me a few years to get further along...By the way, as a "slice in
time" records from the 1840's from Szentpeterfa indicate a population of
about 500 persons, so I think that everyone can appreciate the enormity of
this effort...Are there any interested volunteers out there who would like to
join in??? We could divide up the records by year and also check each other's
work...just a thought...(My maternal grandfather was a Jurasits)
Frank Teklits-Croatian Editor-adds: John, nice to hear from you, and I'm
aware of the extensive collection of names from the Szentpeterfa Church
files. Within the past year I also was able to add two lines of the Skrapits
family lineage, along with the Gilly family. I also have found out that my
Dad's sister married a Stefan Jurasits but I have not as yet begun to trace
his lineage. There is little doubt that somewhere in the past our ancestry
will cross. I estimate that 80% of my database of 500 names are from the same
church records. So between us we probably have close to a thousand names.
Don't you think that the "family names", different from our surnames probably
came about because of similarities of given names? The gathering of family
names would be an interesting project as well. If we could get a few
additional interested parties in delving into their lineage, we could have
quite a collection. However, it's the second set of Church records, dating
from 1682 to 1791 that I'm interested in.
KORNFEIND NAME-A CASE STUDY (John Kornfeind and others)
Dear Gerry, Dr. Yvonne Lockwood, Pat Jahn and Albert Schuch, I would like to
take a moment to thank all of you for your input on various questions I have
had in the past. I have a little theory I would like to run in front of you
to see what you think about its validity. According to material I have from
the LDS Church on the origins of German Surnames, they can come from a
variety of sources, including from a
locality, house or farm surnames, occupation surnames or other sources.
I looking at the name Kornfeind, one could think of a literal German to
English translation: "grain enemy or hater". In growing up I have always
wondered how such a name could develop??? At one point I read of relocation
of the Batthyany Croats, that they were considered to be "farmer defenders".
Is it too much a stretch of logic to see my family name having developed
out of a variation of a direct translation plus some of the elements that
you see from the attachment E-mails? With Korn one could easily visualize not
just the product, but also a field of grain or horizon. With Feind one
could not only see an enemy, but a defender on the horizon, perhaps that
farmer defender. As Albert has suggested to me "Konfeyt" appears to be a
likely predecessor name to "Kornfeind". With the Burgenland being part of
that Austrian "horizon" or border with the Ottoman invasions, would it be
possible that such a name might develop out of this culture and the need to
defend the homelands? My GGGGrandfather and succeeding generations were
listed in the Catholic Church records as "colonus". We were told on our
1993 visit to Hannersdorf that my ancestors were considered to be very
successful farmers prior to the fall of the Austrian- Hungarian Empire.
Thanks to anyone who may have thoughts or other facts to share.
Frank Teklits writes: I have read the three attachments exchanged concerning
your question, and doubt that I can add significantly to the previous
interactions. I am still in the process of translating the book
Burgenlandisches Forschungen, and with the assistance from both Albert & Inge
Schuch, a light is emerging from the end of a long tunnel. Please recognize
that I have undertaken this effort to prove or disprove that I have any
Croatian ancestry, While the text in itself has not, nor will directly answer
my quest, it has provided some significant inputs that may be of assistance
as I continue the search.
To begin with, coming from a highly ethnic (Burgenland) background in
Northampton, PA, the name Kornfeind is a very familiar surname to me, where
for many years a John Kornfeind ran what was considered to be the best
butcher shop in town. To the best of my knowledge, there are Kornfeind's
still in the Lehigh Valley area.
Dr. Lockwood's comments concerning their ethnicity is probably an accurate
one, as in my home town the Kornfeind's were considered to be part of the
intertwined Burgenland (German and Croatian) neighborhood. They were
considered to be part of the German community as they spoke German rather
than Croatian. As I write, I am not sure that I know of the village in
Burgenland where they emigrated from, but if you are interested, I can ask
the next time we drive back to our home town.
In Dr. Dobrovich's text, they are a number of references to Hannersdorf which
you may be interested in. Since I merely extracted them via a search & find
operation, they are disjointed, and will remain so until I complete the
effort, and obtain a copyright to make the book available to the BB
community. The extractions are: "Approximately 8 years after the withdrawal
of the Turks, the Land Registration records of the Schlaining and Rechnitz
Domains for the year 1540 show that the villages of southern Burgenland were
sparsely settled. A large part of the farms were desolate after the Turkish
campaign of 1532". There were 4 farms and 3 deserted places where farmhouses
had been built in Hannersdorf. There was also a deserted mill. "
The Domain of Schlaining
" In the Domain of Schlaining, Croats settled in Podler (Poljanici),
Monchmeierhof (Marof), Altschlaining (Stari Solon), Podgoria (Podgorje), with
UnterPodgoria (Bosnjak-Brig), Rumpersdorf (Rupisce), Allersdorf
(Kljucarevac), Rauhriegel-Allersgraben (Sirokani), Miedlingsdorf (Milistrof),
Neumarkt im Tauchental (Ketel), Kleinpetersdorf (Mali Petrstof), and
Hannersdorf (Sampovar). We already noticed in the last Chapter "Der letzte
Einwanderung der Kroaten" (The Last Immigration of the Croats) that the
Croats in the Domain of Schlaining - with the exception of those in Neumarkt
im Tauchental, Kleinpetersdorf and Hannersdorf - are also
called Walachians. Among the Croats of Durnbach, the author found a verbal
tradition according to which the Walachs of Schlaining were to have come
around 100 years later than the ancestors of the Croatians of Durnbach,
Zuberbach, Schachendorf, and Schandorf. "
"At the Synod in Buek (Wichs) in 1661, the people of Hannersdorf demanded
that a Croatian sermon be held each month. "
" It seems that Hannersdorf still had a partial Croatian population at that
time. The Synod gave the request no consideration and the inhabitants of
Sziget im dem Wart were denied permission for their minister Adam Bokany to
hold regular Croatian divine services in Hannersdorf."
" 60 years later in 1720, 19 families with Croatian names, 21 with German
names, and 4 with Hungarian names lived in Hannersdorf. A fifth of the
Flurnamen (a name for a certain part of the land belonging to Hannersdorf)
are still Croatian today. Two different dialects were spoken in the village
according to Mr. Karner. " I have no comment concerning the possible
derivation of the name Kornfeind, and wish you the best in your quest.
Ed. Reply: This question has already provoked some interesting replies and
will probably turn into a thread to which I'll also add a few comments.
Occupational surnames pertaining to agriculture appear to be very numerous in
the Burgenland. After all this was and still is an agricultural area. Flour
of all types was a very important Hungarian agricultural product. "Korn" of
course defines as grain, cereal, corn, etc. G. F. Jones in "German-American
Names" shows many which include the word "Korn" but not Kornfeind. In
defining these occupational-agricultural names; however, we mustn't lose
sight of the fact that they are frequently shortened or formed without the
"er" suffix that English adds to "doers", bricklay(er), teach(er), etc,. I
would thus opt for "Kornfeind" to stem from "Korn" (grain) and "fein" (fine,
elegant or refined-fein(d for er?). In other words "one who mills grain into
fine flour". Maybe differentiating between a Mhler (often found as just
Mhl, one of my family names) who mills coarse flour and one who mills fine
flour. Guess work on my part. The word "feinkrnig" means finely grained and
I can see the juxtaposition. Of course there may be a German syntax form, of
which I'm not familiar, which creates a different meaning when one adds a "d"
to an adjective (fein). I posed a similar question to Albert Schuch not too
long ago re the name "Kornhasl" which he defined as "a little place to store
grain" or "corn crib". The "L" providing the diminutive. I found the name
very strange, he didn't, being familiar with many similar Austrian names. My
great-grandfather Emil Langasch, (mentioned in the newsletter because of his
strange death) married Ersebet Kornhasl from Rabfuzes, Hungary just east of
Heiligenkreuz. The name is found in that region.
The above in no way contradicts any of the other answers to the Kornfeind
question. I find these attempts to define names fascinating. Makes one wonder
in what dim and distant past they were first used! I often think of a village
inn discussion about 1450-1600 (when surnames for commoners were first being
used) that goes like this: "I was talking to Josef yesterday"-"which
Josef?"-"you know the one by the Korn hasl"-"oh yes, Korn hasl, Josef"-by
which the family was known ever after!
I've added Fritz Knigshofer to this discussion since his name must have been
developed in the same way-i.e. someone from a particular area. This name does
have the "er" however. In looking through my address list I find many others.
I must add this discussion to the newsletter. I'd like to be able to define
all of our names! My own name Berghold probably means "one from a hold (small
hut-shepherd?) in the mountains", add an "e" as in "Bergholde" and you get
vineyard worker. We could use some information on how the addition of "d",
"e" etc. to nouns and adjectives changes the meaning.
I also find it significant that Frank Teklits tells us of the utter
devastation of Hannersdorf (the village of your ancestors) in 1532. (quote:
"A large part of the farms were desolate after the Turkish campaign of 1532.
There were 4 farms and 3 deserted places where farmhouses had been built in
Hannersdorf. There was also a deserted mill. "). Note that deserted mill! Is
the stage set for German colonists (I feel certain Kornfeind is a German name
as opposed to Croatian), your early ancestors, to arrive on the scene and
start up the mill?
MAIL FROM GSSING (from Heinz Koller)
Hello Gerry! Retirement is fine - you wrote. It's really fine, I'm going to
know now. But there are some problems for me in getting accustomed to
it....(A trip to Gssing) should be better next year - the 75th anniversary
of Josef Reichl's death, and 25th of Reichl-Bund-foundation! At the castle of
Gssing we'll play "Landflucht" from Josef Reichl - from June 24th till July
10th, directed by the famous theater- and movie-star Frank Hoffmann. I'm
already contacted by Albert Schuch. I hope he will leave the army (soon)
for we'll have much work doing the "Hianzen-Lexikon" and the translation into
English. It's my hope to publish the book (basing it on the
internet-homepage) in Spring 1999! I know (your cousin) Klaus Gerger very
well, he's also member of my students club.
>Where 225 Rosenberg was (Sorger home) is now a Tischler (cabinet maker?).
Weber perhaps? Emilia Sorger (1892) married Adolf Weber (1875). They had
Ferencz, Margit, Emilia and Justina...<
I know Eduard Weber, born 1912, related to my wifes' mother (Hilda Gerger,
1926). There is a relation to (Poet) Josef Reichl by Mrs. Weber...,
interesting, isn't it?
And last thank you for all your informations, and if you propose coming next
year, I promise to take some time for you and your intentions. Best
greetings, Heinz Koller A-7540 Gssing, Bergstrae 13,
http://www.bnet.at/guessingBest greetings, http://members.xoom.com/Heinele
Ed. Note: Heinz also sent a fine picture of Gssing Castle at dusk outlined
against a fiery sky. Gives the impression of a castle on fire. Will be happy
Ed. Note: Most immigrants joined ethnic associations of one sort or another.
Almost all belonged to a sick and death benefit group, an early form of
insurance, or some social "Verein". Another place to look for family history.
Member Elizabeth Finn, () may have found evidence of
such a group. She writes:"I found some lapel buttons that I found in my
father's things. They are blue and white and brass. On the badge in the
center which by the way is flanked by four triangles are the letters A.U.B.
Does anyone know what they might stand for?
MUSIC MESSAGE FROM GREECE
Many of you copied me concerning the following: "please can you help me where
can i find music and folk songs from burgenland ? i am a musician working in
an hotel where people comming from burgenland and i want to play and sing
special music from burgenland thank you for help, stelios faneromenos"
I responded with pertinent material as did some others. Apparently Stelios
addressed many members on our homepage list as opposed to only coming to me.
It can be done with a few clicks of the mouse. I thought this was a valid
contact as the return address was Greece. Proven when Bob Unger received the
"hello i want to thank you very much for your answer to my email (about music
from burgenland) this helps me so much to find what i am lookin for, you are
so kind and
i am happy to see people helping each other, friendly, stelios faneromenos,
We may receive similar requests of this type, feel free to answer or forward
to me. It proves that our lists are getting world wide attention. We may some
day become a target for jokers. That could be the the down side of being on
the web. We'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.
END OF NEWSLETTER-EDITED & DISTRIBUTED BY GERALD J. BERGHOLD, Contact
for information about the Burgenland Bunch.