Archiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 1999-10 > 0941374383

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Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 67 dtd 31 Oct. 1999
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:53:03 EST

(issued biweekly by
October 31, 1999
(all rights reserved)

"Shake your family tree and see what falls."

Note to recipients. If you don't want to receive Burgenland Bunch
newsletters, email with message "remove". ("Cancel" will
cancel membership, homepage listings and mail.) To join, see our homepage. We
can not help with non-Burgenland family history. Comments and articles are
appreciated. This first section of the 3 section newsletter contains a Notice
of New Archives, Visit of Dr. Walter Dujmovits, a primer for nnnew members
called- Don't Know What To Do?, a Source of Pre 1826 Gols Church Records,
Newsletter Printing Suggestion, More on Status Animus, Historical Atlas of
East Central Europe, Village of Rehgraben, Earliest Hungarian Literacy and
Marriages in the Village of Rabaszentmihaly (Hungary).


Effective this issue, future newsletters will no longer be available from
home page hyperlinks. All newsletters, past and future, will be available
from Roots-L at http://www.rootsweb.com/~autwgw/bbnlarchx.htm.

Newsletters numbered 1 through 66B, G. Berghold's Heritage Quest Articles,
Albert's Village List, the URL lists, and the newsletter catalog (frozen at
no. 66B) will continue to be available via homepage hyperlinks for an
indefinite period; however, we will be eventually removing the hyperlinks to
these old newsletters.

This change is a marked improvement in our service as the Roots-L archives
are searchable while the homepage archives are not. To repeat: if you wish to
utilize newsletter archives go to:

do not go to:

Roots Web BB newsletter archives index and threaded search facility available
from http://www.rootsweb.com/~autwgw/bbnlarchx.htm

Addresses for all of our pages will be found in the Staff Section at the end
of section B of the newsletters.


Information was just received that Dr. Walter Dujmovits will be visiting
Pennsylvania, November 10th to 18th. Bob Strauch (BB correspondent) is
arranging a reception on Friday, November 12 at 7:30 P.M. at the Coplay, PA
Saengerbund, with a trek to the Edelweis Haus afterwards where Joe Weber is
playing the accordion for the usual Friday night session. Dr. Dujmovits, from
Stegersbach, Burgenland is president of the Burgenlndisches Gemeinschaft and
edits their newsletter based in Gssing. He is also author of many
publications concerning Burgenland emigration including 'Die
Amerika-Wanderung der Burgenlnder', often quoted in this newsletter. While I
will be unable to meet with Dr. Dujmovits due to prior commitments, BB
members in the Northampton,PA area can get further information by contacting
contributing editor Frank Teklits ().


I've written other guides for finding Burgenland ancestors but I still get
mail similar to what follows. A typical message reads: "I'm sorry but I don't
know what to do. I go to the bb site and read the newsletters etc. and I go
through all the member and village lists. I find some family names and I
think I found my village. Now what do I do??"

Answer: You have two problems. The first is that you're just starting
genealogy. The second is that you do not have much experience with computers
and the internet. Let's see if we can help.

Always start with what you know and work back from there. First, complete the
names, dates and places of birth, marriage and death of your four grandparents
(assuming you already have that data for your parents-if not start there).

Look at records you may have. Check what's missing. Then ask relatives. Write
it all down. Then look for records where they settled. Old telephone books,
city directories, local church records of baptism, marriage and death, court
house records, wills, naturalization papers, US census, Social Security death
list, etc. If you do not live near sources, try the internet. Check our BB
URL lists for helpful sites. Sometimes you must write for information. You
should get a good genealogy book and read it. Once you have your
grandparents' data, look for their parents data. Also look for information
about their brothers and sisters and their children. Find that and then do
the same for your great-grandparents. By that time you will be an expert and
you'll know what to do next.

Learn how to print, copy files and download from the internet. Review how to
send email. Read your computer instruction books pertaining to these items.
Practice downloading to a floppy for virus protection. Add the BB addresses
shown at the end of each newsletter and some of the BB URL listings to your
internet address file (also known as bookmarks). Our help is just a click

Establish a BB file on your computer's hard disk or email server personal
file. Copy all BB correspondence, newsletters, downloaded material (follow
Virus safety precautions) to this file. Delete it only when it no longer has
value. Back-up your data.

Buy yourself some genealogy software and update it with your genealogical
data. Now you can print some charts.

Once you find the genealogical data pertaining to your family in the United
States, look at the Burgenland church and civil records copied by the LDS. Go
to the Burgenland Bunch Homepage. Look at the village list. Write down the
Hungarian name, German name, Bezirk (district) and where the church (parish)
is located. If you can't find the information ask the BB staff or other
members who are researching that village. Look at the member list and write
down the names and email addresses of members researching your family names
or village. Send them email and ask if they have any information. Offer to
share what you have. You must eventually go to an LDS family history center
and order the film for your church as found above. Then follow research
directions supplied in our newsletters.

Go to our archives and see what has been written about your family name or
village. Download it (copy or print) to your computer. Add this information
to your files. Maybe it will furnish more clues.

There is no short cut to this procedure unless someone has already done it
for you. But beware, what they've done could be wrong. You'll never be sure
until you do it yourself. There is nowhere you can go on the internet and
have someone supply you with all of your genealogy. You might find bits and
pieces and maybe some clues but there is no substitute for doing your own


Gary is another of our charter members from whom we don't often hear because
he's done a lot of Burgenland research and doesn't have much we can help him
with. Now he's helping us. Gary writes:
Gerry: Relative your mention of church records in 66b of newsletter. As
pertains to the village of Gols which I research, the LDS has records of
births, deaths and marriages from 1826 to 1895. Last year when we were
there, we copied the records from 1783 to 1826 and I have them on hand. If
anyone is in need of records from this period for Gols, they may contact me.
Best regards, Gary L. Portsche, Olathe, KS. (Ed. Note-maybe some day we'll
have a file of all villages!)


Hank writes: Thought I'd let you know that I sent letters to the two
remaining RAPPOSCH/RAPOSCHs living in Burgenland (as listed in ETB Online) in
September. Received a reply this weekend from HELMUT RAPPOSCH's sister, EMMA
STEINBACHER, in Schladming. From what she wrote we are definitely second
cousins! She took the trouble to go to the Lutheran Church in Neuhaus am
Klb. to obtain family data for her response. I hope to obtain more info from
her via a second letter.

A thought: I always print out the BB news letters you send by E-mail. This
consumes about 18 pages. I have a small DOS shareware program called SAVER
that permits printing two pages of text per page both front and back.
Therefore, only six pages are consumed in the printing process. If you think
other members would like to save some paper, I'll be happy to E-mail it.
Thanks again for all your help. (Ed. Note-some printer systems already
incorporate this feature. Another method is to change the font used for the
email to something smaller and/or adjust spacing. If you do use shareware,
please remember to comply with any registration requirements.)

MORE ON STATUS ANIMUS (from Martin Friedrich)

Martin writes: Hi: I read your story about the "Status animorum" in the BB
letter. Don't bother to look for a connection to Switzerland, I have come
across these books on occasions in other areas. The one parish that springs
to mind is Abtenau in the State of Salzburg where the census lists are called
"Seelenbcher" (soul books), but also other parishes in the Salzburg diocese
have these record sometimes called "liber animorum". I don't know whether
these registers were kept upon the initiative of the particular bishop, or
were part of a papal directive. At any rate they are real treasure troves
since they may also contain the origin of the parishioner. In the Salzburg
diocese the registers are only preserved from about 10 percent of the


Hungarian Settlements <http://testver.sednet.hu/e_homepage.html>; -(site still
under construction) aid to identifying Hungarian villages.
Fritz writes: As to the village descriptions from the Hiszimap Atlases, I
noted that the web site http://testver.sednet.hu/e_home.html contains many of
the almost identical village descriptions. While the web site has little yet
about villages in Vas county, it already has available the majority of the
villages of Gyr-Moson-Sopron county, including the ones I recently
transcribed for the bb newsletter.

As far as I can tell, the descriptions used on this web site either come
straight from the Hiszi atlases, or there is a common source somewhere for
both of them. I feel that is only a matter of time when this web site will
have the Gyr-Moson-Sopron county complete, and when we shall see the
villages descriptions of Vas county gradually become available.

Under these circumstances, I feel I should not spend time working on these
transcriptions. Instead, you might perhaps mention these circumstances in
one of the next newsletters, refer readers to the url mentioned above, and
invite them to contact me directly for any village summary that is not yet
available from the web site.


I imagine it's no secret that some of us are as much interested in Burgenland
history as we are in family history. I'm not certain if there is a
difference. We can't understand our families unless we understand the history
of where they lived. I've been buying the 10 volume University of Washington
Press "A History of East Central Europe". It's a very good historical account
(in English) of what transpired in the areas surrounding and including the
Burgenland region since 400AD. Like all English histories, it only touches on
the Burgenland. The best actual detailed account I've found so far has been
"Geschichte Des Burgenlandes"-Lehrbuche fr die Oberstufe-the Burgenland
History text book used in Burgenland secondary schools. That work is in
German and no translation is available.

I recommend the Washington Press Series, particularly the atlas, to serious
students of the Burgenland. The maps alone are superb even though they do not
detail villages. Do not buy this atlas hoping to find some obscure village.
Our newsletter archives will show map sources for them.

The paper-back atlas measures 9 X 12 inches, printed on 218 glossy pages.
Contents include 50 chapters covering Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia,
Hungary, Romania, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Yugoslavia,
Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Bohemian, Moravian, Hapsburg and
Ottoman involvement with these areas are also included. Austria as such is
excluded. There are 89 maps depicting historical movement, economic matters,
population shifts and transfers, political changes, etc. It is well indexed.

HISTORICAL ATLAS OF EAST CENTRAL EUROPE, by P. R. Magocsi, is available from
book stores at $39.95. Published 1995, 1998 by University of Washington
Press, Seattle and London. ISBN 0-295-97445-1.

VILLAGE OF REHGRABEN (from Albert Schuch to Anna Kresh)

Albert writes: Anna, following is the information you requested on Rehgraben.
It is taken from: Harald & Leonhard Prickler: Hoheitszeichen der kroatischen
Gemeinden des Burgenlandes. Eisenstadt 1997 (published by the hkdc = hrvatski
kulturni i
dokumentarni centar), p. 257-258:

The (Gssing) Urbarium of 1576 mentions the following surnames for Rehgraben:
WKOWYTH, ZLOKLYOWYTH. At that time the village was called "Verhovina". (Today
the Croatian village name is "Prascevo")

[spelling of names changed later like JENAKOWYTT to JENAKOVICS]

Gssing church records of the years 1670-1689 mention the following surnames

Many different names, seems to have been a constant movement of families
during these years. When the parish Gerersdorf (bei Gssing) was established
in 1789, Rehgraben became a part of it. In the census of 1910 the village had
399 inhabitants. 349 of them declared that Croatian was their mother tongue.
The census of 1923 reports 428 inhabitants, 317 of them with Croatian mother

(material in quotation marks has been extracted from "East Central Europe in
the Middle Ages, 1000-1500", Jean W. Sedlar, A History of East Central Europe
Volume III, Washington University Press 1994)

I've suggested that after exhausting church records we should look for
monarchial and aristocratic records. Having been an accountant, this is an
educated guess based on the common sense thought that property, tenantcy,
rents etc. would require written records. In the above mentioned history,
chapter 15 "Education and Literacy", pages 465-466, I find the following
comments which reinforce my contention:

"As society became more complex, literacy became more necessary in secular as
well as clerical lifeA growing commerce demanded that merchants be capable
of keeping written accountsBy the late 12th and 13th centuries (although
much earlier in the southern sector)writing began to be used for private
documents, such as the transfers of propertyFor example, in Hungary by the
early 12th century a fair number of higher state officials either were
literate themselves or used the services of a scribeIt is safe to say that
the overwhelming majority of nobles in medieval Hungary were illiterateThe
archives of the great noble families contained only the the records
pertaining toroyal gifts, mortgage deeds, or lawsuits. Sometimes these
charters were entrusted to ecclesiastical institutions for safekeepingBy the
15th centuryletter writing did developamong the aristocracy (ED. Note: see
Batthyany 16th century letters concerning settlers, etc. in "People Along the
Border")Peasant scribes functioned as notaries in some of the several
hundred market towns existing in medieval HungaryGreat estates also began
(caps added by editor)

We must ask ourselves how many of these records still exist. Based on
disertations and German translations appearing in the historical publications
available from the Eisenstadt Landesarchiv (some of which have been made
available to us as English tranlation extracts by Burgenland Editor Albert
Schuch), I'd guess a fair number are still extant, with Batthyany, Esterhazy,
and church records predominating. We wonder how many have yet to be read or
translated. Who but a genealogist would be interested in the fact that in a
certain year, someone rented so many hectares from the local Herrschaft?
Those researching a particular subject probably ignore such facts if they
don't pertain to their subject matter, given the complexities of translating
medieval script. Likewise, how many records of this type, in ecclesiastical
institutions, have ever been read, inasmuch as they do not pertain to
religious matters? Have the records in the Franciscan Cloister in Gssing
been exhausted for family history material? I doubt it, even though Pater
Gratian Leser may have scanned some for his 1930's area histories. Let's hope
that someday some scholars with the necessary skills will do just that. In
the meantime, we must be thankful for what has been made available.


Fritz writes: Dear fellow bb members,

In the course of giving a hand to a bb member whose access to LDS records is
very limited I recently ordered the film with the marriages in the
roman-catholic parish of Rbaszentmihly (today's Vasszentmihly), the
neighboring village to the east of Rnk (Radling). I was struck by finding
in this film many recordings by roman-catholics from Als-Rnk, some from
Fels-Rnk, and even a few by parishioners living in Rbafzes (Raabfidisch).

For many there may not be any surprises, but I had not expected these
records. My assumption had been that the catholics of Als-Rnk had been
recording their vital events in the parish of Fels-Rnk. Whatever the
reason, I was struck by the many names which some of you search (and more).
For those of you who may not have searched the records of Rbaszentmihly
yet, I'd be happy to make lookups as long as I have the film for perusal
(though I am leaving for a one month trip on October 11). To save time, let
me merely list the names of the couples of whom I found marriage records with
names that rang a bell with me from your searches. I will not add any
details right now, but would be happy to elaborate for any of you who is
interested. In many of the entries, the names of the parents and the village
of descent are indicated, besides ages and housenumbers.

Marriages in the parish of Rbaszentmihly (names searched by bb members and
mostly involving at least one of the couple being from Als-Rnk):

1894 Ferencz Szimitz and Terzia Jost [these are clearly Lea Buzby's
Samu Motzer and Mria Szimitz [there are many other Motzer entries]
1893 Jzsef Stangl and Terzia Szimitz
1892 Jzsef Szimitz and Terz Fuchs
1891 Mihly Joszt and Julianna Wagner
1889 Jzsef Ehrnhofer and Terzia Fandl
1888 Jzsef Zimits and Roslia Krolyi
1886 Kroly Simitz and Karolina Motzer
1878 Jzsef Fandl and Mria Heigl
1875 Antal Szuszter and Eva Szimicz
Imre Motzer and Julianna Artinger
1873 Peter Artinger and Josepha Dmtr
Josef Steiner and Anna Fandl
1871 Josephus Szimitz and Maria Keppel
Joannes Artinger and Barbara Tth
Stephanus Jost and Rosina Steiger [once again, clearly the ancestors
bb member Lea Buzby]
Joannes Gerger and Barbara Fandl
1870 Anton Fandl and Julianna Kovts
Josephus Zimitz and Julianna Gietl
1868 Michael Artinger and Barbara Mrx
1866 Georg Szimitz and Catharina Rathgeber
Stefan Artinger and Julianna Dmtr
1865 Stephanus Fandl and Theresia Keppel
1863 Michael Heigl and Julianna Fandl
Andreas Gerger and Julianna Heibl
1851 Joannes Artinger and Rosalia Wagner
1850 Istvn Jost and Terzia Dmtr

(Newsletter continues as no. 67A)

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