Archiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 2000-03 > 0954510187

Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 77 dtd 31 March 2000
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:43:07 EST

(issued biweekly by )
March 31, 2000
(all rights reserved)


Burgenland Bunch activity now requires huge amounts of space. Homepage Editor
Hap Anderson and I long ago exhausted the free space allowed us by our
servers. This is not obvious to our readers as we move you automatically via
hyperlinks. While many of you have offered your free space,it is very awkward
to have our material spread over many sites.

Some time ago we moved our archives to RootsWeb, who graciously provide
unlimited free space to organizations like ours. We have now moved our
WGW-Austria-Burgenland Web Page and related Query Board as well. In the
future if you wish to contact our sites use:

Burgenland Web Page (Gateway): http://www.rootsweb.com/~autbur/burgenland.htm

Query Board: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Austria/Burgenland

Archives: http://www.rootsweb.com/~autbur/bbnlarchx.htm

You can also hyperlink from the Burgenland Bunch Homepage.

Please bookmark the addresses. The old addresses will direct you to the new
for a short period of time.

Thanks again to member Charles Wardell for his continued efforts on our
behalf in arranging for this transfer.

I also wish to remind Burgenland Bunch readers that RootsWeb is a non-profit
organization involved in providing free services to the internet
community-particularly the genealogy community. These services require
hardware and other internet assets that are costly. While RootsWeb has
attempted to offset there costs through limited advertising, we as users can
assist them further with an annual donation. If you appreciate what the BB
does, you'll consider a donation to RootsWeb. We'd be hard put to provide
quality service without them. Contributions may be made as below. It wouldn't
hurt to mention that donations have been made in appreciation for

The following is extracted from the Roots-L Newsletter:

For details about support levels, benefits, and payment options (check or
credit card), e-mail <> or visit

Mailing address: RootsWeb.com, Inc., P.O. Box 6798, Frazier Park, CA
93222-6798. (Please write your e-mail address on all correspondence and


If you don't want to receive Burgenland Bunch newsletters, email
with message "remove". ("Cancel" will cancel membership,
homepage listings and mail.) To join, see our homepage. We can't help with
non-Burgenland family history. Comments and articles are appreciated. Please
add your name to email, otherwise we must search large membership lists.
Staff and web site addresses are listed at the end of newsletter section
"B". This first section of the 3 section newsletter contains data concerning
Austrian Cooking Recipes, Categories of Migrations Into the Burgenland,
February 2000 National Geographic, Milwaukee BB Picnic 2000, English
Translation of "Gesta Hungarorum", an Auswanderer Inquiry from Germany and a
Response to Misfiled Jewish Records.


As our readers are aware, I have an appetite for Burgenländische kitchen
food, that soul satisfying taste that brings back memories of well remembered
loved ones and other times and other places. I've accumulated a number of
Austrian and Hungarian cook books, most of which use English language
ingrediants and measurements. I have some that are in German and use the
metric system. Metric conversions are not difficult and my German-English
dictionaries normally supply the names of ingrediants, but they can still be
perplexing. After reading my "Pogatcherl" article in newsletter no. 75,
cousin Klaus Gerger (Vienna & Güssing) supplied some recipes. I include one
for your collection. You can download others from the website mentioned by
Klaus. While I could translate them, I wasn't sure about ingrediants and
measurements. I forwarded the recipe to Inge Schuch (Inge is a professional
translator) and she graciously provided the answers.

Klaus writes:... in the last newsletter you philosophized on
"Grammelpogatscherl". My mother is a famous Grammelpogatscherl cook. She
makes them for all the neighbourhood (Güssing) and relatives. I asked her for
the recipe:


500g (griffiges) Mehl, 1 Ei, Salz, 30g Germ, ca. 250 ml Milch, 2-3 Teelöffel
Staubzucker, 250g Grammeln

In etwas lauwarmer Milch gibt man den Staubzucker und weicht die Germ darin
auf. Zusammen mit Mehl, Salz, Ei und Milch knetet man einen nicht zu [ your
question in the last letter: den Teig kneten / an Toag kneidn ] weichen, eher
harten Germteig. Dabei verwendet man soviel von der restlichen Milch,
(abhängig von der Mehlsorte) bis der Germteig die richtige Konsistenz hat.

Der Teig wird zu einem Rechteck ausgewalkt. Darauf werden die feinfaschierten
Grammeln gestrichen und nach Geschmack gesalzen. Das Rechteck wird (wie ein
Tuch) 3 x zusammengelegt.Dann wird der Teig wieder wie ausgewalkt und
zusammengelegt. Nun muß man den Teig aufgehen lassen. Dies wiederholt man
noch 2 mal. Nach dem letzten mal gehen wird der Teig ca. 2 Finger hoch
ausgewalkt und Pogatscherl ausgestochen. Die Pogatscherl werden auf ein
befettetes Blech gegeben und mit Eidotter bestrichen. Im vorgeheizten
Backrohr bei ca. 230° backen. Gutes Gelingen.

I hope you can translate the recipe, because my kitchen vocabulary is very
poor. And for your collection I have a few more recipes from local cookbooks.

I wrote to Inge Schuch: When you find some time, could you please translate
the following recipe. I am not certain about some of the ingredients and
measurements, also the bit on how to "make a dough". I plan to use it in a
future article. Many thanks and I hope reading this won't make you hungry.

Bitte, was ist ein Dag (a decagram?). A "loeffel" is a spoon but when a
recipe calls for just a "loeffel" do they mean teaspoon or tablespoon? What
is "griffiges" flour (high gluten flour or sifted)? Staubzucker-granulated

Inge answers: From: (Ingeborg Schuch)

...."Dag" (short for "decagram") means "10 grams". When a recipe calls for a
"loeffel," I would expect the author to refer to a teaspoon rather than a

The flour issue is a bit more complicated because our approaches appear to be
different. The literal translation for "griffiges Mehl" is "granular flour";
I would recommend to use "all-purpose flour" in any recipe that calls for
griffiges Mehl. It is the opposite of "glattes Mehl," which is very fine
textured flour that is best for higher, lighter cakes and delicate, flaky
pastries, pancakes, etc. "Staubzucker" is powdered sugar (confectioner's

Turning to the "Grammelpogatscherl" recipe, I suggest the following
translation (I hope the measurements are correct; I will check again):

500g (2 1/2 cups) all-purpose flour,
1 egg
30g yeast (1 oz.)
roughly 250 ml (1 1/4 cup) milk
2-3 teaspoons powdered sugar
250g (9 oz.) cracklings

Pour some milk and the powdered sugar into a bowl, stir in yeast until
dissolved. Stir in other ingredients: dash of salt, egg, flour and rest of
the milk; beat until smooth. Dust in more flour or add more milk to make a
firm dough. Turn out onto lightly floured board; knead until smooth, supple
and elastic.

Roll out dough into a rectangle. Spread on finely shredded cracklings and
salt to taste. Fold the dough in half three times (2x top half over bottom
half; 1x right half over left half). Then roll the dough out again, fold
again, and set aside to rise. Repeat the rolling/folding/rising process two
times. After final rising, roll out about 1 inch thick. Cut out biscuits
using a small round cutter.

Transfer to a greased baking pan, brush with beaten egg yolk. Bake in a
preheated oven at 230°C (450°F) until golden brown. Serve warm or at room

That is a mouth-watering recipe indeed. I too would like to try it some time

Whitescorn, Albert Schuch, Maureen Tighe-Brown))

Once we link our ancestors to a specific village in the Burgenland, it
doesn't take long to exhaust the available family data if we apply ourselves
to the task of searching the LDS church record microfilms. Then we face the
brick wall of pre-1825-28 data. If we find that our ancestors came from
villages which are still in Hungary, we can go back even further with the LDS
records, some to the 1600's. This is true for those families that remained in
place. Those who migrated or moved around soon get lost to our searches. It
has recently come to mind that this group breaks into a series of categories
which can provide us with a search plan. The categories that come to mind are:

Families that have been in the area prior to the 16th Century (Families who
migrated to western Hungary in the 12th to 15th Centuries-are there really
any left in the Burgenland?)

Families that migrated there (15th & 16th Centuries):
-prior to the Turkish period (pre 1583, ie Croatian migration of 1524,
Hungarian and Croatian movement during the crteation of the Wart (fortified
zone), German refugees from the reformation and counter reformation, etc.)

-post first Turkish period (post circa 1590)

-post second Turkish period (post circa 1690)

-Donau Schwabian period (circa 1720-1820)

-Returning Emigrants (25% of those who left 1880-1920)

-Modern era Refugees (post WWI, WWII)

-Iron Curtain Refugees (including 1955-56 Hungarian uprising)

-Refugees from recent Communist breakup and present Balkan Wars

To the above must be added the normal movement of families and individuals
seeking a new home for whatever reason. Members of the Jewish and Gypsy
communities were frequently parties to such moves. I was of the opinion we
had a perfect example of one but it turns out to have been a false start (see
below). Nonetheless, the case is illustrative of what is involved in
following the family movement of a particular category. It also points out
the wisdom of being absolutely sure of your village names.

VerDean Whitescorn (new member) writes:
surname WEITZKORN, village name started out as TARNOPOL changed to
TORMAFALU is now called KRENSDORF. Located 28.9 miles south of
Vienna...husband's grandfather settled in England abt 1880 - 1885...do not
know if given name was also changed as last name was MAURICE WILLIAM
WEITZKORN ( now Whitescorn )

G. Berghold replies:
Krensdorf (Hungarian Tormafalu) is in the district of Mattersburg. It was
in the district of Oedenburg, Sopron Megye pre 1921. Has a population of 552.
Mentioned as early as 1265. Much destruction during the Turkish period.

I'm confused about your reference to Tarnopol. In none of my material is this
name used. Oldest reference (1252) is to "Chrenstorf". Then "Heren" as the
easterly neighboring village of Pughyna. Has retained Krensdorf-(Tormafalu)
names since at least 1873 (Gazetteer). For a while it was administered from
Sigless, that is Gemeinde Krensdorf-Sigless.

Are you certain you are not confusing this village with Ternopol (also
spelled Tarnopol) which is in Galicia (lower reaches of the Vistula)-this was
a crown land of the A-H Empire pre 1918? It is now part of the Ukriane-70
miles ese of Lvov. Passed to Austria 1772, part of Poland 1918, annexed by
Russia from Poland 1939. I'm asking our Burgenland editor to comment before
listing your entry.

Albert Schuch then writes:
I think that all of the above is correct. Weitzkorn looks like a Jewish
surname, and it was nothing uncommon for a Jewish family to move from Galicia
to Western Hungary (today's Burgenland) in the 19th century or earlier.

If the Weitzkorn were a Jewish family, they probably were members of the
large and old Jewish community of Mattersdorf (now: Mattersburg). I am
copying our Judaic Burgenland Editor Maureen Tighe-Brown, as she might know
about the existence of records on LDS microfilm for this community.

VerDean replies:
First thank you for your interest. I am very very new to research over in
Europe. So your help is much appreciated. About the town, I am not sure IF I
am correct now. The info that I do have ( very little ) is as follows:
Husband's grandfather, we were told was from Austria ... Contact last year
with an 92 yrs. lady which I find is a second cousin. ( did not know about
this family,) She said that the family come from a town called Tarnopol but
believed that the family/ies had been killed by the Nazis. but knew or could
remember nothing else, no family names or .......

Went to the Shtetlseeker (ED.-a Judaic internet search engine)and put in the
name of Tarnopol Austria and up came the names of Tormafalu and then
Krensdorf. near Vienna. So I believed that the names had been changed.
Assuming and you know what word can mean.

I did know that there was a Tarnopol Urkraine but felt that it was too far
away. so now I am reading about the history of the Austria-Hungary area.

Maurice William Weitzkorn on death certificate was given age 75 given birth
date as abt 1865. Went to England abt 1880- 1885 and remained there till
his death. Married abt 1890, can not find a wedding certificate, yet. His
first son was born England 1892. The family were Jewish but he married a
catholic lady and abt 1912 changed the spelling. The 92 lady that I mention
was found a few months ago and they only lived about 30 miles from my
husband's family. But they remainded Jewish and connection was lost , the
children not being told that they were jewish and were raised catholic...

G. Berghold writes:
Hello all-Is it possible that Shtetlseeker has a data base which links family
names (Jewish) to multiple villages? In other words, if Weizkorn was entered,
Shtetlseeker found the name in both Tarnopol and Krensdorf. If this is so I
would like to do an article on it as it would be a valuable tool for our
Jewish members. It is possible (as Albert suggests) that the Wiezkorns
migrated from Galicia to the Burgenland?).

Maureen Tighe-Brown (Judaic Editor) writes:
I don't see any evidence that Tormafalu (Krensdorf) was ever called Tarnopol,
looking at my Magyar Helységnév-Azonosító Szótár, a multi-lingual dictionary
of place names in pre-Trianon Hungary. Albert is very likely right that this
Weitzkorn family in-migrated from Tarnopol, Galicia. In-migration to these
Burgenland communities was common, and in large numbers, from c. 1700-1914.

I can say that the LDS has microfilmed all the existing records for the
Burgenland Jewish communities. Unfortunately, none exist prior to 1833.
Rather, no second copy existed, and the original records were sent to Berlin
during WWII where they were at some point burned, according to the
Burgenländische Archivist, Felix Tobler (in a personal conversation with him,

Nonetheless, this Weitzkorn descendent should be able to find birth, wedding,
and burial records from the local Jewish congregation, 1833-1895, and the
civil records of birth, wedding, and death, 1895-1920.

(I should add that the 6 18th-century Censuses of the Jewish Taxpayers of
Hungary were also filmed by LDS, for 1725-1774. However, Jews were not
required to have hereditary surnames until c. 1781, so it is quite difficult
if not impossible, to locate one's ancestors for that period with certainty,
assuming that they were taxpayers.)

Maureen writes further:

<<Went to the Shtetlseeker and put in the name of Tarnopol Austria and up
came the names of Tormafalu and then Krensdorf. near Vienna. So I believed
that the names had been changed.>>

At ShtetlSeeker, it lists Tormafalu/Krensdorf as a V, for Variant spelling.
However, ShtetlSeeker states up front that it has some errors, and I am
almost certain that this is one. For one thing, Tarnopol is a Slavic name.
For another, if you put Tarnopol, Hungary into ShtetlSeeker, you get no
alternatives; since Tormafalu is the Hungarian name, you would expect it to
turn up for Hungary, not Austria. Finally, I have worked for 4 years with
the village names around my own village, and I have never seen this village
name, although I have seen many in-migrants from Ukraine. That being said, I
think that Albert will know for sure.

If you enter Tarnopol + the choice of All Central/East European countries,
you get 16 possibilities according to the Soundex (sounds like) system. One
of those listings is for Tormafalu/Krensdorf. There are 3 different
spellings for Tarnopol/Ternopol/Ternopil, which is a town in Ukraine (as
Gerry Berghold mentioned earlier). Here is the web site showing the 16


Gerry, you are truly farsighted in your idea about Jewishgen linking family
names to specific places. ShtetlSeeker does not do that, but it would be
fantastic if it could. As you know, the Jewish surnames changed drastically
between circa 1781 and 1940, and people migrated from place to place very
frequently, so I think a name map might be almost impossible. Nonetheless, I
believe I've read about such name-mapping for what is today Eastern Poland
and Lithuania, where the populations remained in place for same time.


For those members of the Burgenland Bunch who do not receive National
Geographic, you may wish to search for the February 2000 issue. It has an
article about the Balkans (Albania) and a map showing the Ottoman era. When
looking at the map it is plain to see how our Burgenland ancestors were right
on the edge of the Ottoman Empire. The article is excellent also!

MILWAUKEE BB PICNIC 2000 (Susan Peters & Hap Anderson)

Just a little early notice on this year's picnic. Hap Anderson made the
reservations this week. The picnic will be Sunday, August 13th, 10:00 -
3:00. It will be at the same place, Wabun Park, in Minneapolis. More
details coming later. We're really looking forward to seeing everyone again
and some new "relatives", too! Hoping the new year is being good to you,
Susan and Hap.


One of the earliest histories of Hungary is the "Gesta Hungarorum" (The Deeds
of the Hungarians) of Simon of Keza, written between AD 1282-85. We have
refered to this book in covering the history of Güssing and the term Hianzen.
Simon used earlier works as well as oral tradition and contemporary records
to prepare his history. Some of the history is fictitious as explained in
accompanying notes. The original manuscript has disappeared but a number of
copies were made. These were used for the present translation.

This new English-Latin translation (ISBN 963-9116-31-9) is the first
available to US readers. Latin appears on the left hand pages-English on the
right. There are explanations of archaic terms. It mentions sites in the
Burgenland from Güssing northward to Bratislava as well as many to the east.
Among other items, it mentions the names of pre 13th Century nobles of
foreign origin who established families in Hungary. There is an extensive
bibliography. The book is available from Barnes & Noble via mail order or
through their internet website for $39.65 postpaid. I'm impressed with this
edition which is among the first in a series of translations of central
European medieval texts being published by the Central European University
Press, Budapest. I suggest you purchase this book only if you have an
historical interest in Hungary. It is not a genealogical text.


Mr. Klaus Hartung from Germany <> asked us to publish
the following inquiry in our newsletter.

Georg Ignatz DORNER, born 10 April 1786 in Pfreimdt in the Bavarian
Oberpfalz, was a merchant who emigrated to Western Hungary. He died 24 June
1844 in Moson (Wieselburg), Hungary.

His son Ignatz G. DORNER ("viarum curator", born 10 June 1819 Moson, died 21
Jan 1893 Parndorf, Burgenland) married Bertha (Barbara) NIGRINYI, (born 4 Dec
1844, died 26 May 1901 New York (her ashes were sent to Parndorf). Date of
marriage: 8 Jan 1871 (in Parndorf)
The above mentioned Bertha (Barbara) DORNER emigrated to the USA in 1893 with
her sons: Albert (A), Aurel (B), Friedrich (C) und Josef (D) DORNER. A)
Albert DORNER, called Aly in the U.S., butcher in New York; born 18 Sep 1872
in Budapest, died ?; married 31 Jan 1901 in NY to Bertha WOEHRLE; in 1911 the
family resided at 1293 Amts. Ave., New York. B) Aurel DORNER, born 27 June
1875 in Budapest; is said to have died in New York. C) Friedrich DORNER, born
20 Feb 1884 in Parndorf; was married and is known to have lived in the US in
1928 D) Josef DORNER, born 3 March 1888 in Parndorf, was married and lived in
US in 1928.

Mr. Hartung, who is related to this Dorner family, would like to correspond
with descendendants of the people mentioned above, or with anyone who know
something about them.

) in reply to Fritz Königshofer's article in previous

Rabbi Marmorstein writes:
A note about this:
1) The Jewish records of what was pre-WW1 Hungary are only really complete
from 1851 onwards. For the earlier years, they are somewhat unpredictable,
for some communities they are present back to the late 18th cent., but many
others only begin 1851.

2) These Jewish records were actually summaries of the Jewish communal
ledgers. The rabbi, or community registrar, had to send at the end of the
year a summary of all the marriages, divorces, births and deaths in the
community, to the county government. Until the Holocaust each community had
its own registers which were more detailed. I think that there may have been
a somewhat similar system for the churches, with priests and ministers
sending summaries at the end of each year.

3) As a result, some of the old records are still sitting in the pre-WW1
county seats, and are available there. For instance, I was told nearly a year
ago, of the e-mail address of the county archivist in Sopron in Hungary which
was a former county seat for part of the Burgenland. I e-mailed a request for
a copy of my great-great-great grandmother's death certificate, knowing only
that she lived in Kobersdorf at the time of her death and that she died in
the 1860s. I received, two weeks later, a photocopy of the entire sheet for
Kobersdorf for the year 1862. As an added bonus this contained the
declaration by her husband, the rabbi of the town, that he was fulfilling his
civic duty of keeping precise records of all the vital statistics of his
community. Best wishes.
(Newsletter continues as no. 77A)

This thread: