BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L ArchivesArchiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 2000-03 > 0954511021
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 77B dtd 31 March 2000
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:57:01 EST
THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 77B
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(issued biweekly by
March 31, 2000
This third section of the 3 section newsletter contains an article about
Using Professional Genealogists, Sharing Lookups, Ethnic Music in the
Midwest, Reply to Schoenbacher Article, Using Genealogical CD's, and URL and
USING PROFESSIONAL GENEALOGISTS (editor's opinion)
Most experts will tell you that when you're really stuck with a problem, turn
to a professional. This is as true in genealogy as it is in anything else.
Also like anything else, you must select the correct professional. You do
this by finding one who is accredited, well known in the field, has published
genealogically, and comes well reccommended. You'll find such listed in
various publications and we've mentioned a few from time to time, although we
don't wish to offer endorsements. You can expect to pay for time and personal
attention. Like any other professional you'll find the fees are not cheap.
You get what you pay for. The alternative is to treat genealogy strictly as a
hobby, link up with volunteer groups like ours, share and trade work with
others and keep pushing on until you give up or just can't live without
finding another generation. Then seek a professional.
One other thought comes to mind. If engaged in ethnic (read foreign)
research, always select an ethnic multi-language professional experienced in
your area of research. Local customs and traditions as well as older ethnic
word forms, language and script can easily mislead non-ethnic researchers
unless they have significant experience. Put many strictly English-German
language professionals with limited Hungarian or Croatian experience on a
Burgenland search and they'll have lots of trouble. You will pay for their
education. It's a question of micro-genealogy. I've read many " Germanic
experts" (genealogical authors) who treat the Burgenland as an "other"
region. In discussing Germanic racial migration they emphasize Germany or
their particular area of Germanic interest (Transylvania, Slovakia, Banat,
Batschka, etc.) and barely mention the Burgenland. It's obvious they have
not studied the area. From what I've experienced, the Burgenland is virtually
virgin territory when it comes to genealogical research. (This may well
account for the rapid growth of the Burgenland Bunch.) As of this juncture,
you won't find all that many Burgenland experts.
The present large interest in genealogy has triggered the formation of many
new firms and professionals willing to engage in this work. One of our more
experienced members (who does not do commercial research) had the following
to say on the subject:
"The following is a message I sent to an enquirer who asked me to look
through work done by a commercial firm. The area is in Hungary but far away
from the Burgenland. My assessment put some cloud over the results and the
way the commercial researchers worked. My correspondent now probably is being
plagued by doubts. It would have been better to leave him confident that he
had received a valid tree, especially since there is a good likelihood that
the tree he received is correct in many respects.
However, I would never ask a commercial firm to search records which I can
get my hands on myself. They simply are forced to take shortcuts and cannot
be as interested in the search as I am. Every hurdle they encounter in the
records presents them with a choice of stopping the search or spending extra
time and thus reducing their income per time spent on the case.
I would consider using a commercial firm if the questions are very precise
or/and cannot be searched from records available to me."
SHARE THOSE LOOKUPS?
Sharing is what this BB business is all about. It costs nothing but time.
Member (Susan Stahley) writes:
I ordered some microfilm from the Family History Center for Nemetujvar or
Gussing, thinking I was ordering it for Moschendorf. Maybe by some miracle
it will have some of the people on it I am looking for.
I am going to try to do as many look ups as I can for people while I have
this microfilm, and ask nothing in return for it. Just please be patient
with me since I may not get everyone's look up done, and I will do them in
first come, first serve order. It is in the Hungarian language, so I will
just be able to find the names, then quote you what is around the names. I
haven't got the microfilm yet, so there is time to tell me what you need me
to look up. Please, tell me the year and full name of the person you want me
to look up, and parents names if you have them!
If you want to pay me in return, offer to do something nice for other people
when you get the chance! I know there are many people out there that need
help with their genealogy. Researching SCHRAMEL and ADAMS from Moschendorf,
Burgenland, Austria emigrated to Northampton Co, Pennsylvania
ETHNIC MUSIC IN THE MIDWEST (from Dale M. Knebel)
With the mention of old time music in the newsletters from time to time, it
just occurred to me that you can listen to a couple of old time music
programs from stations here in the midwest via the internet.
www.kfgo.com in Fargo, ND has a program that runs from noon to 2 pm on
Sundays but will take a back seat to Twins, Vikings, Timberwolves so it isn't
regular. They use Real Audio.
www.kqlx.com in Lisbon ND has a program that runs from 10:30 am to noon on
Saturdays on their AM side. They use Microsoft Media Player.
REPLY FROM LORENZ SCHOENBACHER ARTICLE
John Shinpaugh writes: I received a letter from Gunter Hack M.A., Verband fur
Orts- und Flurnamenforschugn in Bayern e.V., Leonrodstrasse 57, 80636
Munchen. Here is what his letter said:
QUOTE . Dear Sir, with much interest I have read your essay about your
ancestor Lorenz Schonbacher from Burgenland. I was very astonished to see
the change from Schoenbacher to Shinpaugh. Perhaps you are interested to
know the presumable descendence of the personal name Schoenbacher from a
locality name Schonbach. Therefore, I add some xerocopies about the
localities Schonbach, Neutal and, to confer, Norristown, from a german book,
a geographical-statistical Lexicon from 1898. UNQUOTE
His enclosures included three pages listing in German and English translation
of 19 locations of the town Schonbach/ Schoenbach in Germany, Austria, Poland
and Czech Rep.. Anyway, I suppose he was trying to provide some help.... I
thought you might be interested in the fact that I had a response to my
article all the way from Munich, Germany.
USING THOSE COMMERCIAL GENEALOGICAL CDS (G.Berghold)
We get a lot of questions concerning the use of commercial cds. They take the
tone of: Will I find anything? Are they worth the money? Can I rely on the
First let's look at the entire approach to family history. Each of us is
trying to find and link one family to another out of thousands of millions of
possible combinations. Any statistician will tell you that your chances of
success are not good. The possibilites increase geometrically the further you
go. Many of the firms providing these cds glowingly report that they contain
millions of names! This is a statistical drop in the bucket! I'm glad to see
these family data bases being built but only when they run to thousands of
cd's will I be impressed. Nonetheless you just might get lucky.
When you've linked five generations (include yourself as one) you're dealing
with at least 31 people. The next step adds 32 more and the one after that
another 64, then 128, 256, etc. It continues to double-a geometric
progression. That's without the sibling links. The mathematical probabilities
soon become awesome. However, if you can find the right records, you can
still follow a thread and ignore the other millions. The trick is to find the
ends of your particular threads. Here is where the many genealogical indices
in books and on cd can be of value. The nice thing about cds is that if you
are even slightly computer literate, they are easy to use. You can also print
and copy from them easily. They don't require the space that books do, but
then books also have certain advantages-you don't want to use a cd on the
beach (sand in your laptop keyboard-ugh), take your computer to bed-or curl
up in your favorite chair.
I have a library of genealogical books and a number of cds. How many contain
data concerning my families? Very few and then only one or two names. Have I
been helped by those books and cds? Sure-they sometimes pointed me in the
right direction. So it is with commercial cds which contain various indices.
If you only find one name (and it is really your family) you'll be directed
to look at another place that may just help. So, if you're stuck trying to
find the name of the wife of so and so, try looking in "Marriage Records For
the State of XXX" or the SS Death Index. Better yet, use someone else's copy
(library) or see if it's on the internet and save $xx.xx. If money is no
object, buy some cds anyway, learn some genealogy, help your friends and
support the growth of data bases.
Some cds contain family names, family genealogies or Gedcom files or lists
compiled from Gedcoms. Are they of value? Sure they are, but only if you know
which may be of value to you and then find something. What are your chances?
None, if you're looking for your Burgenland immigrant's father in a cd
listing Palatinate Descendants in the US (a fictitious title). You must know
the geography and history of your immigrant family. Secondly, is the data
correct? Data entry is error prone, other peoples' work can be fraught with
error and guess work. You'll never know until you do the work yourself. If
you compile a family history using only cds or genealogical books-your
exposure to error is large. Use them only as guides and do your own look ups
to prove the links.
Let's say you scan a cd and you find the exact name you're looking for. It
refers you to Census Number xx for your county. Is it yours? You must go to
census xx and dig deeper. Don't ever assume you've found your family member
just because the name is the same and it's uncommon. I never ran into other
than family Bergholds before I really started to hunt. Then I found over 500
living in the US and another 450 living in Europe. Many given names were the
same and I even found many Bergholds with the same given name in the same
place in the same time frame. Which were mine? Turned out they all were; two
generations of uncles and cousins, but I had the generations mixed up!
Straightened them out using many sources. I've linked my Berghold family to
1690 and still haven't left the Burgenland. I even found one Berghold family
in Muhlgraben, Burgenland which defies linkage to my Poppendorf families and
another just popped up in Hungary. Is there a cd to help me here? I don't
CD's are improving all the time as more data is being added. Eventually we
can expect entire files like the Immigration & Naturalization Service Ship
Lists to be on cd. Maybe all of the extant naturalization records and other
records now scattered here there and everywhere. Maybe the LDS will offer
their church records on cd and we can all buy those for our villages and
really do a kindred search without time consuming travel to family history
centers. Wonderful tools for home use if we're willing to pay the price. Just
remember that they are only tools and not genealogical gospel, slick
advertising to the contrary. You can't prepare a meaningful genealogy with
only a computer, a software package and a handful of cds.
BURGENLAND BUNCH INTERNET LINKS - ADDITIONS, REVISIONS 3/31/00
(from Internet/URL Editor Anna Tanczos Kresh)
AUSTRIAN, AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN INTERNET LINKS
o Austrian Airlines <http://www.austrianair.com/main.html> (Bob Unger)
(Ed. Note: SEE SPECIAL DISCOUNTED FARE-US TO VIENNA THROUGH MAY 31)
BURGENLAND INTERNET LINKS
o Alte Ansichten aus Eisenstadt
<http://www.fortunecity.de/lindenpark/schubert/876/index.html> - old photos
of Eisenstadt and the rest of Burgenland; links to Burgenland websites; NOTE:
this site contains some explicit photos from the 1920's not suitable for
children (Bruce Klemens)
HUNGARIAN INTERNET LINKS
o U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum <http://www.ushmm.org> - (Washington, DC)
information on membership, bi-monthly newsletter, and publications; may be of
interest to Burgenland descendants with Jewish ancestors; Jan./Feb. 2000
issue featured an article on "The Holocaust In Hungary", specifically
mentioned the "golden age" of Hungarian Jews from the end of the 19th Century
until WWI and its aftermath through WWII.(G. Berghold)
LANGUAGE AIDS - TRANSLATORS, DICTIONARIES, etc.
o Ahnenforschung <http://www.krone.at/family/stammb_tipps_vornamen.html> -
given name equivalences in English, German, Latin, and Hungarian (Charles
EMIGRATION and PASSENGER SHIP INTERNET LINKS
o Hamburg Homepage <http://www.hamburg.de/> - Hamburg Link to Your Roots;
data on port of Hamburg; database of Hamburg Emigration Links (in progress)
o German Ports <http://home.snafu.de/garling/emi_port.html> - info on ports
of Hamburg and Bremen (no lists here)
o Castle Garden <http://members.tripod.com/~Silvie/CastleGarden.html> - Story
by immigrant being processed through Castle Garden immigration center
o Immigrant Story <http://www.maxpages.com/ourlostfamily/Stories>
URL CHANGES (revised links/descriptions)
o Burgenland Croatians Website <http://www.HrvatskiCentar.at> - history,
timeline, map showing Croatian settlements in Burgenland by dialect, links,
and more (better description, thanks to Bruce Klemens)
o Genealogy Unlimited, Inc <http://www.itsnet.com/~genun/maps.html> - (for
purchase) European road atlases, maps, including Austro-Hungarian Empire
(This site now contains the following notice: "Genealogy Unlimited has been
sold to Interlink Bookshop and Genealogical Services IBGS, Victoria, BC.
Canada <http://www.interlinkbookshop.com/index.html>. The transfer of
merchandise and the closing of Genealogy Unlimited probably will occur about
March of 2000. Most of the maps and atlases in our catalog will be available
from us until the transfer occurs. After that time, IBGS will continue
selling the maps and atlases.")(another address change)
o A KULTÚR MARKET <http://www.akm.externet.hu/> - numerous Hungarian links,
including MAGYARORSZÁG TÉRKÉPEKEN (maps)
of all Pre-1921 Hungarian counties (Megye), including
or <http://www.akm.externet.hu/km/terkep/adatok/vm44.htm>, and
Megye, the future Burgenland (additions and address changes)
o History of Austria-Hungary
<http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/wooton/34/austria/cover.htm> - short
history of the Austro-Hungarian Empire prior to its dissolution (address
o Postleitzahlen Österreichs <http://www.bank-styria.com/seek01.htm> -
interactive searches for WWW links, email addresses, telephone numbers,
Austrian postal codes (have not dropped, but this site generates some errors;
will monitor site; in the meantime, try alternate site)
o Postleitzahlen fúr Österreich
<http://www.homeshop.at/homeshop/fleurop/postlz.htm> - Austrian postal codes
URLS DROPPED - LINKS BROKEN/CHANGED - INFORM URL EDITOR IF YOU KNOW ALTERNATE
o AID (German) <http://www.aid.co.at/> - Austrian Internet Directory; links,
links, and more links! (link broken)
DougB. Ayer; (); Anaheim, CA. POSCH, Köszeg (Guns),
Hungary. Possibly Oberwart?
Barbara Howard, (); Norwalk, CT. GIBISER, YOST, Zahling,
settled in Allentown, PA
Mary Light () Sterling Heights, MI; researching: FREIGRUBER
village of Punitz and ERNST village of Rohr (district of Güssing). Both
settled in Michigan.
Andrea Novak Neumann; (); Minneapolis, MN NOVAK,
ORISITS. Nikitsch (Hungarian Füles), district of Oberpullendorf. Parish: St.
Laurentius. Emigrated to: South Bend, IN
Frank (Franz) Paul; (); Vancouver, BC Canada. PAUL,
Kathy Pinerski, () , Walker, MN, WURGLITSCH,
Grosspetersdorf or Kleinpetersdorf, Settled in Chicago, IL
Alec Riedl; (); Knoxville, TN. RIEDL, Markt St. Martin.
Mark Sanhamel; (), Woodridge, IL. SAUHAMMEL, WELTLER.
Kitladen, Loipersdorf, Buchschachen. District of Oberwart. Settled in
I have changed E-mail addresses from to .
From: (Dave Kubiatowicz)
My E-mail address has been changed to:
The e-mail address for Bob and Marilyn Tratz has been changed from
End of newsletter.
BURGENLAND BUNCH STAFF Coordinator & Editor Newsletter>
(Gerald J. Berghold; Winchester, VA )
Burgenland Editor> (Albert Schuch; Vienna &
Home Page Editor> (Hap Anderson)
Internet/URL Editor> (Anna Tanczos Kresh; Butler,PA)
Austro/Hungarian Research>(Fritz Königshofer)
Burgenland Lake Corner Research> (Dale Knebel)
Chicago Burgenland Enclave> (Tom Glatz)
Croatian Burgenland> (Frank Teklits)
Home Page village lists> (Bill Rudy)
Judaic Burgenland> (Maureen Tighe-Brown)
Western Hungary-Bakony Region> (Ernest Chrisbacher)
Western US BB Members-Research> (Bob Unger)
WorldGenWeb -Austria, RootsWeb Liason-Burgenland > (Charles
BB ARCHIVES>(can be reached from Home Page hyperlinks)
BURGENLAND HOME PAGE>
WORLDGEN WEB BURGENLAND QUERY BOARD
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