BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L Archives

From:
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 84B dtd 15 July 2000
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 07:57:04 EDT

THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 84B
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(issued biweekly by
July 15, 2000


This third section of the 3 section newsletter contains a report of George
Tebolt's Recent Trip to Hungarian Border Villages, an outline of the Hamburg
Passenger List Website, Data Concerning Free City of Rust, Source of
Burgenland Flag? and URL and Member Changes.

TRIP REPORT

(Ed. Note: The year 2000 is certainly shaping up as the year for visiting the
"Heimat"-the reports are coming in back to back. Keep up the good work! It
might be a good idea to include such a report in your own family history when
they include your villages. Coupled with a village history (available from
the archives) it would portray a valuable "before and after" picture.)

George Tebolt writes: "We had a good time in Europe this summer and I would
like to share my experiences with you and the club. Best regards."


WANDERUNG IN THE NEW MILLENNIUM (by George Tebolt, )

On June 1st we left on our first trip of the new millennium. Previously in
1997 a vacation trip to Austria with our daughter and her husband aroused my
interest to search for my roots. With Hungary only next door I borrowed
their auto for a day trip to Veszprem County looking for my roots.

Like most of us, I should have asked my grandparents more questions about
where they came from etc. in the old country when they were alive. Now that
they are gone my last hope was the widow of a distant relative who told me to
look around Fenyofo, Hungary (south of Gyor, east of Papa-just west of the
Bakony forest) for my family roots. Actually my grandfather Mihaly Tibold
left Bakonyszucs for America in 1899 followed by my grandmother Maria Edl
three months later in 1900. However in 1997 I did not know this. But I did
find a distant relative in Fenyofo and she had no idea where I could find any
Tibolds or Edls even though they came from Szucs, which was about 5 miles
away.

Upon returning home that year I had enough clues that would eventually put me
in touch with a second cousin in New Jersey who left Hungary in 1956. She
still has a brother in law living in Szucs and finally I learned where my
family came from and where the relatives on the Edl side of the family are
now living. She had no idea where the Tibolds had gone.

Every year since 1998 we flew into Dusseldorf, rented an auto and visited a
cousin on my mothers side of the family in Germany. We always go to Europe
the first part of June before it gets too busy with vacationers since we
don't have a planned itinerary and usually just drive wherever our interest
takes us and then have no problem finding a vacant room in a guest house for
the night.

This year our first week was spent traveling through Germany, Holland, The
Czech Republic and Austria. Then we crossed the border into Hungary at
Heiligenkreuz (am Lafnitz, southern Burgenland, district of Jennersdorf).
>From there it is only a 2-hour drive to reach my grandmother's family, the
Edl's in Balatonalmadi on Lake Balaton. The first year we crossed the border
from Vienna, but we find it is much easier and less traffic to cross at
Heligenkreuz.

When we arrived at Balatonalmadi we parked at the Aurora Hotel and walked
across the street to let the Edls know that we had arrived. The Aurora Hotel
is an 11-story approx. 300-room hotel built in the 50's by the Russians with
a walkway to Lake Balaton. Most of the guests are from east Germany (the
poor Germans as my relatives call them) and they come by the busloads.
Everybody at the Hotel speaks German, as do most of the shops in the
surrounding area. Even though the Aurora Hotel has not been remodeled since
it was built, it is clean, comfortable and secure. A security guard is
always on duty in the parking lot so you don't have to worry about your auto.
I had been told that vandalism and auto theft is a problem in most of the
old communist countries, but I have never experienced any problems in Hungary.

I spoke German to the hotel clerk when I checked in on Friday June 9th,
although he spoke English also. We got a room including breakfast for 70
Deutsche Marks ($35.00). The breakfast here was one of the better breakfast
buffets we had in Europe. Plenty of everything to eat; eggs, cereals, rolls,
bread, cold cuts, wurst, etc. However when I asked for a room with a TV I
was told that they did not have any left. The clerk told me they are down to
4 working TV sets in the whole hotel. However there is a large TV in the
hotel lobby.

Since this was Pentecost weekend the hotel had a live two piece band playing
every night until Monday. They played almost all American songs form the
60's and 70's, Elvis Presley, Fats Domino etc. However when I asked them if
they could play, "I'm In The Mood For Love'', they seemed confused and wanted
to know if that was a song. They must have had a set repertoire and didn't
know any other songs.

The next day being Saturday we walked over to the Edl's house and visited
with some of our relatives and went to Saturday evening mass with Uncle Roman
and Aunt Matild. I asked if we could visit our hometown Szucs on Sunday.
Matild said she was happy to go but Roman was not feeling well enough to go.
Roman is 80 years old and has a tumor on his back but won't let the doctor
operate. He is using old home remedies to treat it. I didn't think we would
see him again this year, but he looks no worse than he did when we saw him
last year.

On Sunday morning I picked up Matild and with my wife drove to Bakonyszucs
where my grandparents were born and married in 1892. It was Pentecost Sunday
and mass was just beginning when we arrived. Matild told us that one of her
grandnieces was making her first Holy Communion. Therefore we went to mass
again and afterwards we went to a communion party at the house of Istan Fodi,
who is my aunt Matild's nephew. Unfortunately we could not stay more than a
hour, since we were also invited to a birthday party back in Balatonalmadi.
Even though we had just met some of these relatives for a short time, they
all made us feel welcome, in spite of the language barrier. Most of the old
timers still speak German but the middle age relatives speak Hungarian only.
However the younger relatives predominately speak English and a few speak
German as their second language. Although I am not fluent in German, only
starting to learn it 4 years ago, my aunt keeps telling me I should learn
some Hungarian since my German is good enough. For example when I would say,
"Gute Nacht", she would say in Hungarian, "Jo ejszakat", meaning, " good
night". I have learned a few words in Hungarian, perhaps next year a few
more!

Later that week we drove to Bakonytamasi and I found Elizabeth Nemeth, my
first live Tibold relative! Her grandmother was my grandfather's sister. I
had sent her a Christmas card with a short note in German stating that I
would be visiting Hungary in June and would like to visit her. What a thrill
it was when she replied in February with a typed written letter saying that I
would be her honored guest. It was wonderful to finally find a relative on
my father's side of the family. She gave us a glass of orange soda and we sat
at her kitchen table and looked at a box of old photos. I was glad to
finally see a picture of Maria Tibold, my grandfather's sister, since I have
never seen a picture of my grandfather or any of his siblings. It was an
enjoyable visit and when we left she gave us her telephone number and told us
to phone next time so she could cook us a meal.

We also went to Szekesfehervar to visit the newly wed members of our family,
Tamas and Edit Szucs. We had been invited to their wedding in April but
could not attend because it is my busy season. However we brought them a
wedding present and made good our promise to take them out for a nice dinner.
They showed us their lovely apartment and Edit promised to cook us a good
Hungarian dinner when we come next year. A funny thing happened on the way
to the restaurant. It was a hot day, 35 C (approx. 95 F) and we had to stop
for a light. The car in front of us opened both doors as if they were
getting out of the car. As I was getting ready to go around them when the
light changed, they closed their doors and drove off. My nephew explained
that was Hungarian air conditioning!

Before we knew it the week was almost over and it was time to say Good Bye,
Auf Wiedersehen, Viszontlatasra. So we drove to the Vienna airport and took
a flight to Scotland so my wife could visit her relatives before returning to
the USA. (End of Article)



HAMBURG PASSENGER LISTS (suggested by Bob Unger)

(Ed. Note: Sometimes I feel we offer an embarrassment of riches. We make so
much Burgenland family history data available that I'm afraid much gets lost
in the shuffle. We'd all like to have only that which involves us personally,
but in family history research, that's just not possible. Still I'm always
amazed at what we've put together. When I have the time, I like to scan Anna
Kresh's URL lists and visit the various links. Sometimes it's months before I
get to some of the new ones. There is always a great article buried in those
terse links. Recently Bob Unger, who has been with us from the beginning and
normally knows what we have, was looking for some data and came upon the
Hamburg Passenger web site. He then forwarded a note to Anna as something for
her to list and copied me. Anna responded with a "gotcha" as she had listed
this site some time ago. See what I mean? I often feel the same way when
someone asks a question, the answer to which has long been buried in our
archives. I guess the mark of a substantial archive is the time it takes to
find something. Maybe we need a better index, even though we have one with
our newsletter archives, plus some homepage alpha lists and a couple of
search engines? Most of you also have search and find mechanisms as part of
your internet software.)

To get on with the Hamburg Passenger Lists. The majority of our immigrants
used the Bremen and Hamburg ports of embarkation. Those files will provide
much data if you can find your ancestor on them. Fortunately work is underway
to build computer data files. It will eventually not be necessary to use an
index and then scan reels and reels of microfilm. Bob Unger expands his find
to outline what is available to date.

He writes: This website promises to be helpful in locating your immigrant
ancestors in the Hamburg passenger lists. Go to the site and click on
"Hamburg: Links to your roots." The copied text below indicates that they
are starting with years 1890-1893. To date they have only completed 1890 for
those who sailed direct. Thus, this site should prove to be very valuable to
Burgenland Bunch members.

******
The following text was taken from <http://www.hamburg.de/English/welcome.htm>;
*****
DO YOU THINK HAMBURG MIGHT HAVE BEEN YOUR ANCESTOR'S EMIGRATION PORT?

The Hamburg Emigration Lists are a data bank which includes the personal data
of 5 million people who emigrated via Hamburg from 1850 to 1934. It is now
available for your personal use, starting with the years 1890-1893.

This data bank will then grow, on a regular basis, year by year. The first
phase will include the data on emigrants from 1890 to 1914. At a later date
the years 1850 to 1934 will be included and all of it will be accessible on
the internet as well. As soon as you've found the name you are looking for
you may obtain complete details (where they came from, profession, age, etc.).

You can inform yourself on subject matter pertaining to the port of
emigration as well as the project "LinkToYourRoots."

The companies mentioned in the banners above have made this project possible
through their kind support. We would like to express our sincere appreciation
for their help.

Major Headings:
Tour To Your Roots
Krakow - Hamburg - New York Real Video Stream
The Project "LinkToYourRoots"
Hamburg Emigration Lists
The Emigration port of Hamburg
Anatevka's Children in Hamburg
The project starts (photos)
Award for LinkToYourRoots at the Stockholm Challenge
Speech of the Deputy Mayor on the occasion of the exhibition "Emigration Port
Hamburg" in Chicago
Hamburg State Archive (in German)
Internet Exhibition:
Hamburg Tourist Board



ENGLISH HOMEPAGE GERMAN VERSION SEARCH CITY MAP GUESTBOOK
IMPRINT

HAMBURG EMIGRANTION LISTS

The city of Hamburg, accommodating emigrants in the past and to this very
day, is in exclusive
possession of lists of those who passed through her utilizing the harbor.
Bremen and other cities lost almost all these precious lists, but only
Hamburg managed to safeguard complete records covering the flow of emigrants
from 1850 to 1934.

What makes these lists so valuable, is the fact that even the hometowns from
whence the emigrants came is recorded. Anyone researching a family tree will
treasure this crucial factor.

The American multiple-volume Glazier/Filby reference work "Germans to
America", covering U.S. immigration from 1850 to 1890, is full of errors.
However, the Hamburg Lists include all the German emigrants in addition to
millions of people of other nationalities, mainly from eastern Europe.

By the year 2003, the city of Hamburg expects to be able to display the lists
for the entire period
covering emigration from 1850 to 1934. The Hamburg State Archive is the
source and safe-keeper of emigrant lists stemming from this period as well
as records of all Hamburg history.

All the data pertaining to the emigrant lists are being processed and brought
to the Internet, here at this center. In April 2000 the Hamburg archives will
offer Internet access to the first years: 1890-1893. With this facility in
place anyone looking for his "special" ancestor will successfully be able to
do so.

ENGLISH HOMEPAGE SEARCH CITY MAP GUESTBOOK IMPRINT

Research:

At the start of each search, a pop up form appears where you may enter any
and pertinent information at your disposal. Searches can be narrowed down
by"part" Family names of a certain name i.e. Meier with Mei% or Me%er. You
may enter "%" or "_" as wild cards, whereby "%" represents any number of
letters, and "_" a single letter. Please note that a search is case sensitive.

A passenger list is available with classification by Family and Given Names,
as well Year of Emigration and/or Year of Birth. This search may also tender
the names of fellow family members traveling along.

Birth Date / Age
It is significant in the compilation of major parts of the lists that it was
not the Date of Birth, which was requested at the time, rather the emigrant's
age so that only the birth years in question may be entered. This must be
taken into consideration during research.

Direct Emigrants / Indirect Emigrants

>From 1854 to 1910 the Hamburg Emigration Lists were arranged in two series.
One series contained a record of all those emigrants shipping out directly to
ultimate countries (marked in the hit list with a "d"). The other one
contained a record all those emigrants, shipping out indirectly from Hamburg
to an intermediate European port and from there on a different ship overseas
(marked in the hit list with an "i"). If the name of the country of
destination, to which the emigrants wanted to proceed, included in the
indirect lists, it is shown in parentheses. At the indirect immigration
section, the column marked "Ship's destination" displays the name of the
transit port of call. The transit port of departure is depicted with "via".

A special third series, covering the period from 1871 to 1887, contains
emigrants aboard a ship with less than 26 lower deck passengers (marked in
the hit list with an "n").

Given Names:

Numerous names in the emigrant lists were merely entered in an abridged form.
research you should also use the wild cards and search the abridged forms to
Help on Given Names

Accommodation:
The type of accommodation on the ship is listed in German.
Steerage = Zwischendeck
Cabin = Kajüte
First cabin = Erste Kajüte
Second cabin = Zweite Kajüte
First class = 1. Klasse
Second class = 2. Klasse
Third class = 3. Klasse
Cabin class = Kabinenklasse

HAMBURG GERMAN GUESTBOOK IMPRINT
*****
Passenger search
How to research
Help on Given Names
Donation Request
German version

Dear visitors We have increased our server's capability. However, there might
still be some unpleasant delays because of the enormous interest in our
database. We would appreciate some patience on your part. Many apologies for
this slight inconvenience. Your LinkToYourRoots-Team.

Available Years
The data bank currently contains the following years that can be searched:
Year of emigration category State of completion

1890 direct complete
1890 indirect partly complete
1891 direct partly complete
1891 indirect partly complete
1892 direct partly complete
1893 direct partly complete
(End of Article)



DATA CONCERNING FREE CITY OF RUST (from Gerhard Lang)

Gerhard writes: Today I've found some time to look through the BB sites and
found some question marks at the "Rust-listing". I thought I could complete
it as follows:

The Hungarian name of the town was "Ruszt"

Rust is a "Freetown" (Free City) and therefor it's an own "District",
although it's located in the Eisenstadt district.

Parishes are Rust for RC and LU, some of the Lutheran records from the time
of the counter-reformation (1674 - 1781) are kept at the RC Diocesan archive
at Eisenstadt.

Best regards from Burgenland, Gerhard



SOURCE OF BURGENLAND FLAG?

It's finally happened, my files are so cluttered with material, I lost an
important address. A few years ago I placed an order for some Burgenland
flags with a firm in Austria. Now I've lost the address. Can anyone help us
out? G. Berghold

Darlene Muellner asks: My husband Kurt and I already belong to the
Burgenland Bunch. I have a question: Where can I get a Burgenland flag? I
would like one about 2' x 4' if possible. I know when we were in Vienna five
years ago, there was a flag store, but I have no idea of the name or address.
Thanks for any help.


:PLEASE NOTE: READING EMAIL NEWSLETTERS :PLEASE NOTE:

Newsletters are put together via a lot of cutting and pasting between
different types of software. They are then copied as text and cut and pasted
to AOL's email facility. This is transmitted unedited and then reformatted by
your email software to fit your email screen. As a result, if your screen is
not large enough, it may include danglers where the last word of a sentence
is moved by itself to the next line.

If this happens to you, you can correct it by using Windows Restore Button
-upper right on the tool bar-middle button. The restore button reformats the
text to fit your screen, eliminating the danglers.



BURGENLAND BUNCH INTERNET LINKS - ADDITIONS, REVISIONS 7/15/00
(from Internet/URL Editor Anna Tanczos Kresh)

LANGUAGE AIDS - TRANSLATORS, DICTIONARIES, etc.
o Hungarotips <http://www.hungarotips.com>; - Hungarian genealogy; 1800 county
maps (click on Genealogy, Help, Reference) with placenames in Hungarian and
German, Latin, or Slovak; online Hung. lessons; low-cost Hungarian language
lessons by email (Maureen Tighe-Brown)

SEARCH ENGINES
The following is for your information only. These links will NOT be added to
our URL page.
~ Have you ever wondered why different search engines return different
results? It is because most search engines check only a portion of the web
pages available. You can see this at the Search Engine Sizes page
<http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/sizes.html>; which lists the latest
index sizes reported by the search engines themselves. For more information
and to verify the sizes, try the Search Engine Size Test page
<http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/sizetest.html>; which tends to verify
Google's claim to having the largest index on the web.

~ Did you know that plus signs (+), minus signs (-), and quotation marks ("
") are easy alternatives to Boolean searches and are accepted by many search
engines. An easy-to-follow tutorial on this is at
<http://searchenginewatch.com/facts/math.html>;.



MEMBER CHANGES

To Be Removed

The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
(reason: 550 Invalid recipient)

(The recipient name is not recognized)


NEW
Wendy Ferranti,(); Essex, Ontario Canada; WAGNER, MURLASITS,
OSWALD, REITER, PEISCHL. Grandparents, Alois Wagner and Theresia Murlasits
settled in Niagara on the Lake, Ontario from Stegersbach and Ollersdorf. Some
Wagner relatives settled in NY and Murlasits family in Milwaulkee.

Lois Kelley;(); Hampton, MN. THELL, PITZL. Apetlon. Settled
in St. Paul, MN.

Al Kennedy; (); Lombard, IL; MAIER, BARTOLOWITS;
Poppendorf, Szent Gotthard; Immigrated to Wisconsin.

Donna Stockl, (); Chatham, NJ; researching PEISCHL and
PELZMANN in STEGERSBACH (Szentelek) from 1800's onward; probably Catholic;
some came to USA in 1921; settled in Philadelphia, PA.


CHANGE

I have recently changed my email address from to

Kim Bulone, Atlanta, GA

My ISP has recently changed the requirements for their e-mail addresses. My
correct e-mail address should now be:
(take out the word "mail"). Deb Brobeck Hunter

Please be so kind to change my e-mail adress from to
Gerhard H. Lang

(end of newsletter)

BURGENLAND BUNCH STAFF Coordinator & Editor Newsletter>
(Gerald J. Berghold; Winchester, VA )
Burgenland Editor> (Albert Schuch; Vienna &
Kleinpetersdorf, Austria)
Home Page Editor> (Hap Anderson)
Internet/URL Editor> (Anna Tanczos Kresh; Butler,PA)

Contributing Editors:
Austro/Hungarian Research>(Fritz Königshofer)
Burgenland Lake Corner Research> (Dale Knebel)
Chicago Burgenland Enclave> (Tom Glatz)
Croatian Burgenland> (Frank Teklits)
Home Page village lists> (Bill Rudy)
Home Page surname lists> (Tom Steichen)
Judaic Burgenland> (Maureen Tighe-Brown)
Western Hungary-Bakony Region> (Ernest Chrisbacher)
Western US BB Members-Research> (Bob Unger)
WorldGenWeb -Austria, RootsWeb Liason-Burgenland > (Charles
Wardell, Austria)

BB ARCHIVES>(can be reached from Home Page hyperlinks) or a simple search
facility (enter date or number of newsletter desired) can be found at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~autbur/bbnlarch.htm#simple

BURGENLAND HOME PAGE>(gateway to all lists and archives)
http://www.spacestar.com/users/hapander/burgen.html

WORLDGEN WEB BURGENLAND QUERY BOARD
http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Austria/Burgenland

Burgenland Bunch Newsletter distributed courtesy of (c) 1999 RootsWeb.com,
Inc. <http://www.rootsweb.com/>; P.O. Box 6798, Frazier Park, CA 93222-6798

Roots Web BB newsletter archives index and threaded search facility available
from http://www.rootsweb.com/~autwgw/bbnlarchx.htm

Newsletter and List Rights Reserved. Permission to Copy Granted; Must Provide
Credit.

This thread:

• [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 84B dtd 15 July 2000 by