BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L ArchivesArchiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 2000-09 > 0969020124
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 87 dtd Sept. 15. 2000
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:15:24 EDT
THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 87
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(issued biweekly by )
September 15, 2000
(all rights reserved)
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non-Burgenland family history. Comments and articles are appreciated. Please
add your full name to email. Our staff and web site addresses are listed at
the end of newsletter section "B". Introductions, notes and articles without
a by-line are written by the editor. This first section of the 3 section
newsletter contains the articles: BB Picnic Reports, Allentown Ethnic Change,
Flag Source, NY Times Travel Section Features Burgenland Area, More on
Spelling of Names, More on the Mongolian Question, Village of Origin-
Weiskirchen? and News From Chicago. We now have 561 readers and 571 members.
BB PICNIC REPORTS (from Susan Peters & Klaus Gerger)
Burgenland Bunch Picnic-2000 (USA)
(see pictures by clicking on "Picnic" from homepage)
Susan writes: The 3rd annual Burgenland Bunch picnic was held on Sunday, 13
August, in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It was a perfect day to exchange
information, see old friends, and meet new friends. The temperature was in
the lower 80's and it was partly cloudy.
About 52 people attended this year and again came from near and far. (That
number may be low as there were a few who didn't get the opportunity to sign
in.) Kathleen Kelly came in from New York City, and of course, Bill and
Monica Peters from Sarasota, Florida. There were also the Schönfelders from
Texas and the Elli family from Chicago. Others drove from as close as two
miles and from as far as 120 miles. It is always appreciated that people
make such an effort to attend. Mike Kirchmeier, who ended up sleeping in his
truck last year because he couldn't find a hotel room was able to find a spot
on a nice comfy couch this year. There were many new faces and also ones who
come back regularly year after year. Real friendships are starting to form
that can only happen when meeting in person.
An attempted call to Klaus Gerger, who was having a Burgenland Bunch
gathering simultaneously in Burgenland, was complicated by the use of cell
phones. Unknown about the two phones that were available was that neither
service plan included the ability to call internationally. About an hour
later, someone discovered there was a pay phone just around the corner. So
the call was completed using a calling card. (see picture) Unfortunately,
the gathering in Burgenland was already done. Happily, we were able to speak
to Klaus and find out that his get-together was successful and even included
two Americans from Chicago. We are still waiting for our first attendees
from Burgenland and have high hopes some will be coming next year!
Again, the food that was brought to share was great!!! Rosemary Stifter made
two kinds of strudel that were wonderful! One was poppy seed and apple and
the other was apple and currant. You had to act fast to be fortunate enough
to have a piece of either! There were many beautiful and delicious salads
and desserts, and no one left hungry.
There seemed to be two distinct groups of people. Those who came to do some
serious research and share data, and those who came to just enjoy themselves
and socialize. Regardless of what camp you were in, everyone seemed to have
a good time. Some people had pictures to share about their recent trips to
Burgenland, and some were discussing plans for their trips coming up in the
near future. Some brought their portable PC's and really got down to
business. Pictures, books and data were exchanged all around. There were
several door prizes awarded, three of which were provided by Klaus Gerger.
After a snafu caused by the fact that the names from last year were left in
the box, the prizes were finally given away to the happy winners.
Reflecting on all that has transpired through history since Burgenländers
started to immigrate to the United States, it is a wonderment that we all
gather to celebrate our heritage, brave ancestors, and the place we all love
whether in the U.S. or Austria: Burgenland.
AND A NOTE CONCERNING THE SIMULTANEOUS BURGENLAND GATHERING (from Klaus
Gerger who also sent us a picture of attendees)
Klaus writes: Hi Susan, we just have one picture (attached) and none showing
me with my mobile phone connected to you. The picture is taken in front of
the Auswanderer Museum (Güssing). Heinz Koller with his wife an Mr. Weinhofer
and Mr. Dujmovits jun. from the BG joined us later. We had a guided tour by
Mr. Bartl in the Josef Reichl and Auswanderer Museum. After a little
"Schnaps" we drove to Steingraben to the Gasthaus Thomanek where we sat and
talked (with fine food and ice cream) the whole afternoon. One of the
outcomes was that the BG (Burgenländische Gemeinschaft) will start a web site
and publish some selected articles in the English language. Inge Schuch
offered to translate a few articles for us. After the meeting I had some
talks with Dr. Dujmovits and Mr. Pratl, so I'm optimistic for the web site.
Best wishes, Klaus
PS: in the picture standing from left, Gerhard Lang and his wife, the husband
of Margot Zappe, the parents of Inge an Albert Schuch, and Fred Bush with his
wife fom Chicago,(sitting) from left Margot Zappe (she is planning a tripto
Chicago) and Inge Schuch.
----- Original Message -----
Hi Klaus,I hope everything is going well for you. James Grassinger put these
pictures of the BB picnic on this website. I thought you might like to see
Do you have any pictures of your get-togther? Pehaps we could put one of
ours and one of yours on the BB website for a short time? Best Wishes, Susan
ALLENTOWN, PA ETHNIC CHANGE (from The Morning Call By KEITH HERBERT 08/12/00)
(Ed. Note: Allentown has gone from English Quaker to Palatinate (PA Dutch) to
Austro/Hungarian/Croatian, Italian and Syrian to Hispanic-250 years of ethnic
change! Will some Puerto Rican descendant be hosting a "Puerto Rican Bunch" a
few generations from now?)
Allentown Puerto Rican Day parade put on hold after 2 years of troubles.
Organizers hope a quieter celebration next year will restore its original
purpose. Organizers have canceled next year's Allentown Puerto Rican Day
parade, which has become controversial because of post-parade rowdiness the
past two years. But Rita Inglesias, president of the Puerto Rican Parade
Committee, said Friday the group may reverse its decision if it can find a
way to resolve the problems surrounding the parade by July. (more detail
FLAG SOURCE (from Dale M. Knebel)
I bought my Hungarian and Austrian flags at Alamo Flags in the Mall of
America (South Dakota). I just checked to see if they have a website and you
can access it at www.alamoflags.com
NY TIMES TRAVEL SECTION FEATURES BURGENLAND AREA (from Bob Loerzel)
Bob writes: Hi, Today's New York Times Travel section has a story about
Burgenland and the neighboring part of Hungary. You can see it online at
http://www.nytimes.com/library/travel/europe/000820pann.html. I'm not sure
how long they will keep it posted on the Internet, so I've pasted a copy of
it at the bottom of this e-mail. The print version includes some additional
photos and a map of the area. The article is called:
Lifted by Music And Torn by Politics
By MICHAEL RATCLIFFE
(Ed. Note: I have the article, but I'm not sure of the copyright so I won't
be printing it. It is an excellent article and worth the effort to download
or find a printed copy.)
MORE ON SPELLING OF NAMES
Fritz Königshofer writes to Connie Wright:
Connie, I read your exchange of messages with Albert Schuch in the new BB
newsletter (86B). It seems to me that Schali might be a German phonetic
spelling of the Hungarian name Sali. Similar forms are Saly, Sáli and Sály.
These are names the Hungarians would have pronounced Shalee or nearly Sholee
(when there is no accent on the a). This was a name quite present in old
There are many options for the other name. It could be Piech, Piecs,
Pietsch, Pitz, Pitzl, Pecz, Petz, Pirzl, Pierzl and more. You will need the
context of the village and a search of the actual records (or of today's
phone directory) to obtain a grip on this name.
I am sure you already know the on-line phone directory sites for Austria
(www.etb.at) and Hungary (http://www.matav.hu/tudakozo/index_e.html), where
you can get your own impression of the frequency and distribution of these
MORE ON THE MONGOLIAN QUESTION
This subject has stirred up a lot of interest. Although we realize that
definitive proof of a Magyar-Mongolian connection will probably never be
forthcoming, it makes an interesting diversion from census and church records.
Kathleen Kelly () writes: Subj: Re: Mongolian Connection
Thank you for forwarding Felix Game's email to me. I found it very
interesting, and I also enjoyed perusing his website.
I received only one email with respect to your article on the possible
Mongolian Connection (the origins of the Tschida name generated several, all
thanking me for the information). John Kaintz found the article
"fascinating" and he said that for years he joked about "GGGGG, etc. Uncle
Attila. In reality it was probably the Khan Dynasty who left their mark on
(and their genes in) modern Hungary and now the Burgenland." He went on to
say that his Tschida ancestors had a more eastern appearance with dark hair
and complexions, and very angular faces.
I am going to the BB Picnic in St. Paul (my first trip to MN), and I am very
much looking forward to meeting some of the other members. I attribute many
of these wonderful occurrences and exchanges of information to you. You have
made so much possible with your founding of the BB Group, and with your
continuing dedication and interest in all matters relating to Burgenland
genealogy. I cannot thank you enough.
Concerning the question as to where the Magyars came from, I recall a funny
story a Hungarian cousin of my mother, a striking blue eyed blonde,told me,
when I asked her how come
she did not look Asian:
" About 900 AD, the Magyars, having left the Asian steppes, and traveled
west for many years, entered the valley of the Danube. As is usual with
nomads, the men went first, on their shaggy horses. Behind, in their covered
wagons, went the women, the children, and the old people. The men liked the
place and decided to stay. But behind them, the next wave of migrants
(perhaps the Avars?) followed them. They took
the wagons, the women and the children, and they killed the old folks.
The Hungarians said: ' What do we do now ? Left without our wives and
children, we have to take other people's women ! So they did, and they never
stopped until this day. And that's why I am blonde and blue-eyed."
This story, though facetious, shows that language, names and official
history are not unfailing sources of genealogy. The Hungarians I knew
certainly did not look like Mongols.
My reply: True, but dominant genes still prevail and perhaps the current
research in this area will make genealogy obsolete. All we'll need will be
some hair or bone fragments! Heh, heh! We grasp at straws when we enter the
never-never land of pre-recorded history. I always told my grandmother that
one of her ancestors was caught by a Mongol. Always good for a wet dishtowel
in the face. Maybe an ancestor of your blue-eyed blonde was caught by an
The Avars established a Khanate in the Burgenland region (including most of
the Roman Provinces of Pannonia and Noricum) from about 600AD-800AD.
Charlemagne and the Franks put an end to it about 796AD. The Franks then
established the Eastern March or "Östmark" as a duchy. When the Magyars
arrived (896AD) they allied themselves with the remnants and gave western
Europe a rough time until 955AD when they were defeated at Lechfeld (near
Augsburg). They then withdrew to the Hungarian plain and established the
country we know as Hungary today.
Contemporary sources say the Magyars were initially "pushed" from their
temporary home on the Black Sea and drawn westward to more fertile regions by
an alliance of Pechenegs and Bulgars.
VILLAGE OF ORIGIN-WEISKIRCHEN?
Given the European spelling of your immigrant ancestor's name and the village
of origin, you have the keys to your family history. The village name is
often a problem. While I was certain the village of this query was not in the
area of the Burgenland, I decided to help as it is a classic example of
village problems and their resolution.
Kathleen Densham () writes:
I am trying to locate any relatives of my Grandparents: Rudolph Trenn (born
April 26, 1884) and Marie Raudensky (born October 29, 1982) in Weiskirchen,
Austria-Hungary. They emigrated to the USA and were married and lived in
Enhaut, Pennsylvania, my hometown. Marie Raudensky Trenn's sister Katharina
Sattler geb. Raudensky was born April 17, 1908 and was still alive in 1968 as
I have a newspaper article and picture from Weiskirchner Nachrichten. She
was the widow of Ernest Sattler. The names I am trying to find are:
Raudensky, Trenn and Sattler.
I do not speak German, but could get someone to interpret for me if
necessary. I would love to bring my family to my grandparents hometown.
I reply: No need to know German. English is the language of the BB although
some of our sources are German, Hungarian, Serbo-Croatian and Latin. Not to
There are two villages named Weiskirchen in Austria. Neither are in the
Burgenland, so we can't help you there. One is in Upper Austria (north west
of Vienna), the other is in Styria (north of Graz). One of our contributing
editors is Fritz Königshofer and he is very knowledgeable about Styria. Using
your family names, he may be able to give you some help. I'm copying him. The
reference to the Weiskirchner Nachrichten (newspaper) is also a clue. Where
is Enhaut, PA? I do not find it in the list of PA post offices. (Kathleen
later responds that Enhaut, Pennsylvania is in South central Pennsylvania,
about 10 miles from Harrisburg, which is the capitol and about 5 miles from
Three Mile Island, Middletown, PA. -which is a well known immigrant enclave
due to the nearby steel works and railroad yards.)
Fritz Königshofer writes:
Kathleen, Your question on the Weis(s)kirchen of your grandparents is quite a
challenge. First of all, are you sure it is spelled Weiskirchen (with one s)
or Weisskirchen, which in German script is normally spelled with a sharp
s in the form Weißkirchen [Just this moment, I erroneously sent off this
unfinished message to you when I tried to print the sharp s]. What is the
precise spelling on the newsletter article you have?
Weißkirchen means "Whitechurch" which was a frequent townname. I am
skeptical whether the town of your ancestors could be the Weisskirchen near
Judenburg in Styria, as it is not a large enough town to normally have had a
newspaper. In Hungary, only the Weisskirchen in the Banat region would
qualify based on size and number of German inhabitants. The Hungarians
called this town Fehértemplom. Of its 12,000 inhabitants in 1910, about half
were ethnic Germans. Today, the town is in Yugoslavia (Serbia), right east
of and relatively near to Belgrade, and has the name Bela Crkva.
You could check the web sites of the Donauschwaben at, e.g.,
http://www2.genealogy.net/gene/reg/ESE/dsinfo.htm . At the second of these
sites, go to Banat, letter W, and find the description of Weisskirchen. When
you follow the bibliography, you will find that a lot has been published
about this Weisskirchen, including a book of family names, though almost
everything listed is in German. There was also a Weisskirchen in the north of
Bohemia, near the border to Silesia/Prussia.
When I get my next chance to visit Budapest, I'll check whether there was a
newspaper called Weisskirchner Nachrichten published in the Hungarian
Weisskirchen. If it was published, then the National Library might even have
a collection of this newspaper.
Fritz later writes: Kathleen, I just played a little on the web site of János
Bogárdi at http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g079.shtml who has indexed and
automated something one could call the Hungarian yellow pages of 1892 (lists
of shopkeepers and craftsmen). It has only one name Tren (no Trenn) in all
of Hungary and this name occurs in old Temes county, where also one Sattler
has an entry! I still cannot place the name Raudensky, but I believe you
have pretty good corroboration now that the Weisskirchen in old county Temes,
now in Yugoslavia, might indeed be the place you are looking for.
By the way, all Germans were cleansed from the Banat region right at the end
of WW II. This fact encouraged descendents more than other Germans to write
down their history.
And even later: Kathy, Your paper mail arrived with the article from the
Weisskirchner Nachrichten. I am glad you sent it.
The conclusion from reading the article is that we are back at the
Weisskirchen in old Hungary (Fehértemplom, Bela Crkva). The Weisskirchner
Nachrichten must be a post-WW II newsletter published by and for the former
ethnic German inhabitants of Weisskirchen (the refugees, so to speak) who
now, after their expulsion, lived all over Germany and Austria. If you get
in touch with Donauschwaben or Banatdeutschen via the web sites I gave you,
somebody may be able to tell you where the Weisskirchner Nachrichten had
been published and whether they are still in print.
My mother is a displaced ethnic German from northern Moravia, and she still
receives a monthly or so newsletter called Beskidenpost published for all
these Germans who had lost their homes in Northern Moravia at the end of WW
II and now mainly live in Germany and Austria. The newsletters
("Nachrichten") were a prime medium for the German refugees to keep contact.
The fact that there happens to be a village called Weisskirchen near
Leonding, where Katharina Sattler nee Raudensky lived in 1968 turns out to be
a pure coincidence!
The article you sent me clarifies the question of the "right"
Weisskirchen for you, as it lists birthdays etc. of people living all over
Germany as well. It also states the street and house addresses of the
families when they still lived in Bela Crkva, before being expelled from
Yugoslavia, such as Wendelinigasse in case of Ernest Sattler. One of these
other addresses in your article is telling, as its name is Orschowaer Gasse,
and Orschowa was a town in the neighboring county of old Weisskirchen in
If you have any question on this, let me know. However, it is clear now,
that Leonding near Linz in Upper Austria was the place where the Sattler
family lived after being expelled from Weisskirchen in the Banat region,
Temes county, of old Hungary, now Bela Crkva in Yugoslavia. Your ancestors
were Banat Germans.
NEWS FROM CHICAGO (from Chicago editor Tom Glatz and Mary Eckert)
Sorry that I have not written or sent anything in a while. One of these days
I will clean up this room & send you some more things as promised.
The BB may be interested in the following. Maybe those in the Chicago area
would have an interest:
H.E. Bishop Paul Iby, Bishop of Burgenland, who resides in Eisenstadt, is
coming to America for a visit. I know he will be in the Washington D. C.
area. I don't know of the details for that part of his trip. However he will
be in Chicago to say Mass on Sunday, October 22, 2000, at 11:00 AM. It will
be at St. Bernadette Church, 9343 S. Francisco Ave., Evergreen Park, IL.
Afterwards there will be a dinner in his honor at the Martinique Restaurant,
2500 W. 95th St., also in Evergreen Park. Tickets for the event are $35.00 &
can be purchased from Irene Varga, 6242 N. Newcastle Ave., Chicago, Il There
will be Austrian/German type music. Dinner includes cocktail hour, complete
prime rib dinner, open bar, & the music. I will of course be there.
Mary Eckert also writes:
Make checks payable to Burgenlandische Gemeinschaft and mail to Irene Varga,
6242 N. Newcastle Avenue, Chicago, Il. 60631.
For additional information contact John Radostits at 708-425-3415 or Irene
Varga at 773-631-4521.
For the last 2 months the Burgenländische Gemeinschaft (BG) in Chicago was
able to find another place to have meetings. Fortunately they were held on
Sundays & I was able to attend. However this was only because it was outside
of the wedding season. So in the Autumn the meetings are back to Fridays & I
will not be able to attend. There is great interest in reviving the annual
Chicago BG Christmas Party this December. They also want to include the
Goulash & roast pork Burgenland style as was done in the past. This is good
news for the BG here if it works out.
I had a long conversation with Bob Strauch (Allentown BG correspondent and
contact with the Austro-Hungarian Veteran's Club)& everything is the same as
usual in Allentown. Regards, Tom Glatz
(newsletter continues as no. 87A)