BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L ArchivesArchiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 2000-12 > 0978268668
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 91A dtd Dec. 31, 2000
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 08:17:48 EST
THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 91A
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(now issued monthly by )
December 31, 2000
(all rights reserved)
* READ FIRST-We start New Year 2001 with 613 readers!
This second section of the 3 section newsletter contains:
* Burgenländische Gemeinschaft Web Site-English Translations
* Villages With Similar Names (Many St. Peters)
* A Reinstated Member
* Allentown Affairs
* Question Concerning Adoptions
* Older Records-An Old Question.
BURGENLÄNDISCHE GEMEINSCHAFT WEB SITE ADDS ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS
Previous issues of the BB News have mentioned this organization so often that
I needn't explain its importance again. Suffice it to say you should go to:
Here you will an introductory page written in both German and English (click
on the flags). The contents include (click on the titles):
* About Us- Burgenländische Gemeinschaft bylaws and membership information
(check it out if you would you like to join)
* Latest BG Newsletter-cover story
* BG Newsletter Archive-selected articles of interest to BB members from back
* Calendar of Events-what's happening involving the BG in Burgenland, i. e.
BG Picnic in Moschendorf July 8, 2001, Burgspiele in Güssing (Dramatic play
at Güssing castle), "Der Kampf ums Recht"-Fight for one's rights; June 28, to
July 21, 2001, Stadtfest in Güssing-date to be announced.
* BG Travel Agency-BG is partially supported by this agency, service
available only to Austrians
* Contact Us-address, phone, email, board members (Dr. Walter Dujmovits,
president; Renate Dolmanits, secretary; Heinz Koller (BB member), deputy
secretary, regional chapters (13)
* News-what's new at this website?
* Guestbook-sign the book
* BG Links & Literature-focused on the Burgenland (this is the place to order
Dr. Dujmovits classic book "Die Amerikawnderung der Burgenländer"), plus
links to Burgenland Bunch, Museum of the Emigrants from Burgenland in
Güssing, photos, floor plan, virtual tour; Hianzisch on Heinz Koller's
In addition to the updated website, The BG Newsletter is now also carrying
some articles in English. The web site and English articles in the newsletter
are being prepared through the efforts of our own BB members Klaus Gerger,
Dr. Albert Schuch, Heinz Koller Inge Schuch (translation) as well as
contributions from BG staff and local BG members.
Today I received the BG Newsletter for November/December 2000. I was very
pleasantly surprised to see my picture on page 2, with a brief biography and
best wishes on the occasion of my 70th birthday (22 Sept.) written by Klaus
Gerger. Page 5 has a column of BB articles in English by Dr. Albert Schuch.
VILLAGES WITH SIMILAR NAMES (MANY ST. PETERS)
We know that many locales in the United States have the same names. Some we
can easily differentiate by county or state, others are not so easy. So it is
with Europe, there they often use river names or other geographical features.
Many Austrian or Hungarian villages are named after saints. One of our newer
members is interested in Szt. Peterfa (St. Peter) Hungary, a village along
the border with the Burgenland. He searches the newsletter archives and
finds that a village called Szt. Peter in northern Burgenland has been
absorbed and erroneously concludes that it is his Szt. Peterfa. He mentions
this to another member and starts a thread, eventually picked up by other
members who correct the error. This is a danger to which we must remain
alert. It is very easy to be misled when one is not familiar with local
geography. Following is a summary of the thread. I think you'll be amazed at
* Ed Barret writes: Incidentally, I think it's a crime that they changed the
Zsentpeterfa name to "Janossomorja."
* John Lavendoski writes: What's that all about?
* Others join in the thread.
* Gerry Berghold replies: Ed read the following and came to an erroneous
conclusion that Sankt Peter and Szt. Peterfa were one and the same. There is
more than one "Saint Peter" in Hungary. Szt. Peterfa, Hungary (south-Vas
Megye) has not been changed but Szt. Peter, Hungary (north-Moson-Sopron
Megye) has been absorbed.
* This is what Ed read:
(from the THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 81A, May 31, 2000)
MY TRIP TO THE BURGENLAND by Robert G. Hayes
...I intended to travel into Hungary to see the town of Janossomorja. The
towns of Szent Janos and Szent Peter had been combined in 1970 to form
Janossomorja. These were formerly known as Sankt Johann and Sankt Peter by
their German speaking inhabitants, which included, for hundreds of years, my
maternal grandfather's family, named Perlinger. (snip)
* Then Frank Teklits helps by writing:
The text "Magyar Helysegnev-Azonosito Szotar" lists no less than 22 different
Hungarian villages known as Szent Peter, & 5 additional villages if one adds
a few typical Hungarian endings. I didn't get too excited when I saw Ed's
email. Perhaps one day, I'll type out the complete listing of these villages
if someone is really interested.
A REINSTATED MEMBER
I keep asking members to advise of address changes, but some forget or get
caught up in a rash of job and/or server changes; their email comes back
"address unknown" and they get removed from the mailing list. Some then
contact us and we have to start the whole business over again. That's the
down side, the up side is that the correspondence can take some interesting
directions such as this (lost in my files since last year).
To: Firmus Opitz from Anna Kresh
Your message brings back a lot of memories, too. Like the Christmas on the
farm when my Mom and I were in the kitchen singing carols in the best harmony
we could muster. While we were singing Stille Nacht our neighbor ran over and
banged on our door yelling "Your house is on fire, your house is on fire!!!".
Thank God, it wasn't our house. It was our smokehouse. Seems a slab of bacon
slipped off the hook and fell into the embers, flared up, and practically
burned down the smokehouse. We didn't have indoor plumbing so we had to haul
buckets of water from the outside pump to put out the fire. Everything got
smoked really well.
I sure wish I had the words to all those old songs so I could sing along with
the folks "back home" in the Lehigh Valley or with all my audio tapes, but I
have been away so long that I have forgotten all of them except Stille Nacht
and Fliege mit Mir in die Heimat.
Don't worry about the cut and paste. It will all come in time. Save those
instructions I sent you and read them again in a few months and it will make
much more sense. In the meantime, if I can be of any help, drop me an email.
Thanks for your reply. I enjoyed reading it. Frau Kresh
Firmus Opitz had written to Anna after she sent him the usual new member
He wrote: Subj: Reborn Member of The BB
Hello Anna: I have viewed your name and actions with the BB for quite a long
time and I certainly appreciate your words of WELCOME BACK. I never intended
to leave the BB in the first place but do to the fact that as my GF use to
say( Sohn du bist so dumm vie der nacht) and if I didn,t understand that He
would let fly with something in Hungarian. I let it stand at that. Lets see
where was I ? I noticed in the last BB news letter that you were doing a lot
of singing like for instant Muss i denn zum stadtele "naus und du mein
schatz bleibst hier. My father use to play that on his violin back in our
farm days in SD. Lights lamps and the off key notes I am sure were there but
we did not notice as we were so happy to hear it, He also played Stille
Nacht,Heilige Nacht. Anyhow many thanks to Herr Berghold und Herr Schuch &
of course Frau oder Fraulein Kresh.
I will have to sit down and digest the onfo you sent me, to me cut and paste
means to cut something out and glue it to something! does that tell you
something? I am for sure as my GF said sehr dumm. Note: you need not send me
notification of recent newsletters as I can hit the web page each or so and
pick out what I want. Vielen danke zu alas. Wiedersehen, Firmus John Opitz
ALLENTOWN AFFAIRS (from Robert Strauch)
A Xmas greeting from Bob Strauch included the latest news on what is
happening at the Austrian-Hungarian Veterans Society in Allentown. Their
annual "Sautanz" (literally Pig-Dance, best defined as a "harvest" or
"butchering" festival) was held Oct. 14 at the club and was well attended and
a smashing success. Plenty to eat (roast pork, Bratwürst, potatoes,
sauerkraut, grammelpogatscherl, pastries and ethnic music. Some of the
musical renditions follow (how many do you know and wouldn't it be nice to
have a tape?). Musical titles can be hard to translate-I'll give it a try,
maybe you can help:
Es war ein Mädchen von 18 Jahren (There was a maid of 18 years)
Der Fremdenlegionär (The Foreign Legionaire)
In der Heimat, da gibt's ein Wiedersehn (In the homeland we'll meet again?)
Du schwarzer Zigeuner (You Black Gypsy)-my grandmother called me that
Cerny Cigan (Gypsy from Cerny)
Rosemarie-Polka (same in English)
Mama, get bitte schau oba (Mama please look at Papa?)
Geh, mach dei Fensterl auf (Go, open the window)
Schön is so a Ringelspiel (I give up on this one-Pretty as a ringdance?)
Deutschmeister March (March of the Hoch & Deutschmeister Vienna Regiment)
A Fasching Ball (masquerade) is planned for February 24, 2001. Bob also
included three new recipies for holiday pastry. One is for miniature
pseudo-Sacher Tortes and another is for miniature Linzer Tortes. My wife
says, no way-next year maybe! I'll try them before then and bring you the
recipe. BB members Phyllis Sauerzopf and Judy and Tim Snyder also attended
the A/H Vets annual flag raising ceremony.
QUESTION CONCERNING ADOPTIONS (Steiner, Berghold, Schuch)
In a message dated 1/23/00, writes:
<< My name is Kellie Steiner. I am researching my husband's Burgenland
genealogy. I have a major stumbling block that I am hoping you can help me
with. My husband's grandfather was illegitimate. His mother then married a
man named Steiner who adopted him. I haven't been able to find his birth
record even though I have a date and town where he was born. Do you know
anything about Austrian adoption records? >>
Answer: Kellie-the illegitimacy rate in the Burgenland was quite high. The
main reason was poverty. Young men did not have the money to support a family
and they lived at home with many siblings. Another reason involves the late
posting of bans. Catholic priests were pretty inflexible when it came to
such things. Often however, the father was known and I've seen church records
where the birth was recorded as illegitimate but the father was still
mentioned. If I were you I'd check the LDS records. These fathers frequently
married their partners later when they were able to support a family.
Another reason involved the high number of servants or laborers in the larger
farms and families. As to formal adoption, I'm not informed as to the details
and I'm asking Albert Schuch, our Burgenland editor to comment.
Albert's Reply: Kellie, I agree with Gerry's answers to your questions. I
never heard of any "adoption records". Apart from the cases already mentioned
by Gerry there were probably very few adoptions in former times, and these
few were probably restricted to the "upper class".
What poor people often did (towards the end of the 19th century) was to take
care of orphans from Vienna for an economic reason: they received money for
doing so, and the orphans had to be returned to the orphanage when they were
six. Many didn't live that long, they really had a most deplorable fate, were
totally neglected, just "used" to increase the income of the household, until
they were "relieved" by an early death. The church records call these
children "Kind in Pflege" (if written in German). What we call adoption today
is a more "modern" phenomenon in Burgenland, and still doesn't happen very
OLDER RECORDS-AN OLD QUESTION
The question "are there records which predate the LDS microfilm (1828)" has
been asked quite often. For those who have not read the answer before, I
repeat a recent exchange on the WGW Query Site.
Burgenland Province Austria Queries
A new message, "Pre-1828 records, is there microfilm available?" was postedby
Joe Liebezeit on Fri, 22 Dec 2000. The message reads as follows:
I've had great success with the LDS microfilm records for the Burgenland in
my genealogical research. I've noticed that the LDS film only goes back to
1828 for the villages my relatives are from (Reinersdorf, Grossmurbisch). I'm
ready to extend my research further back in time. What is my next step? Are
there Burgenland records pre-1828 (for the named villages) available on
microfilm or do I have to pay a visit to Austria?
Gerry Stifter replies:
Joe At least in the parish we were interested in (Pilgersdorf) older records
were available at the church. The baptismal records from Deutsch Gerisdorf,
Bubendorf and Salmansdorf were from 1780 to 1855. While the secretary at the
church was initially reluctant to provide them to us, after we talked to the
parish priest we were allowed to take them into a back room and review them
at our leisure. The marriage and death records from that period for the
villages listed were already sent to Eisenstadt. Marriage and death records
for other villages such as Kogl and Lebenbrunn were available. From several
Burgenland members who were in Pilgersdorf prior to our trip, we learned that
even earlier records are available in Eisenstadt.
Fritz Königshofer replies:
The church records filmed by LDS are the so-called duplicates which were
introduced since 1826/27/28, and in what is now Burgenland mostly since 1828.
>From that time onwards, parishes had to record vital events in the original
matrikels as well as the duplicates. After the end of each calendar year, the
duplicates were sent to the diocesan administration (in case of today's
southern Burgenland, the diocesan administration was in Szombathely).
Therefor, in most cases, originals exist from much earlier times than 1828.
For instance, my guide states that roman-catholic parish records for
Heiligenbrunn (which included Reinersdorf) exist since 1744, and for
Grossmürbisch since 1668. Today, these older original records can either
still be at the parishes, or may be at the Diocesan Archive in Eisenstadt.
You need to call the parish or the Diocesan Archive to find out in each case.
I do not think that as a rule parishes prohibit access to their original
matrikels. In August of 1999, I visited the parish rectory of Pinkafeld
entirely unannounced, but was kindly given access to the old original
matrikels on the spot. However, there might be a more formal way to apply for
access to the original matrikels in advance of an actual trip, or else it may
not always work out as well as it did for me. When I tried my luck in
Lockenhaus later that same day (after we had watched the incomparable
spectacle of the total solar eclipse), I learned that those original
matrikels for Lockenhaus are archived in Eisenstadt. By the way, it is always
a good idea to look up entries in the original matrikels which you already
have found in the duplicates. This is because parish priests often made
additional marginal entries in the originals at later times, e.g., when a
birth out of wedlock was subsequently legitimized by a marriage, or when the
baptized person later applied for a baptismal certificate, married, or died,
and other similar future vital events (e.g., name changes due to
Magyarization). Since the duplicates had usually gone to the diocesan
archive, such marginal entries were only made in them too, in case the events
happened before the end of the running calendar year, before the duplicates
were sent away to the diocese.
EDITOR'S ADDITION-Many of the Hungarian village church records microfilmed by
the LDS (villages not ceded to Austria in 1921) do predate 1828. My own
experience with Pinkamindszent took me back to 1737. Some others are as early
as the late 1600's. Check the LDS mic