BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L ArchivesArchiver > BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER > 2000-12 > 0978268677
Subject: [BURGENLAND-NEWSLETTER-L] BB News No. 91B dtd Dec. 31, 2000
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 08:17:57 EST
THE BURGENLAND BUNCH NEWS -No. 91B
DEDICATED TO AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN BURGENLAND FAMILY HISTORY
(now issued monthly by
December 31, 2000
(all rights reserved)
* WE MUST HAVE NAME, OLD AND NEW ADDRESS FOR ADDRESS CHANGES!
This third section of the 3 section newsletter contains:
* Those Email Addresses
* New Ethnic CD
* Record Availability-Again
* Philosophy Behind The BB
* URL and Member Changes (16 New Members)
THOSE E-MAIL ADDRESSES
Contributing Editor Dale Knebel sends me the note below. I might also point
out that Yahoo, Hotmail and Juno have caused distribution problems for us,
since if 3 newsletters are returned you'll be dropped from our distribution
list. These servers have smaller volume limits. If you forget you have more
than one address and don't clear your secondary "mailbox", new incoming mail
can be refused.
Dale writes: Here is another angle on e-mail, and I don't know how widely it
Some people use a Yahoo or Hotmail address in addition to their regular ISP
address. A new member used one of these. He has roots in South Dakota, and
after I supplied some information, and apparently proved reliable, he
transferred me to his regular e-mail address. I suppose it is a way of
testing people who reply, and a way of getting rid of someone you don't want.
(ED.-but a pill for list providers!)
NEW ETHNIC C/D (from Robert Strauch)
Bob writes: Raabfidisch (Rabafüzes, Hungary) may be a sleepy little Dorf, but
the German Ladies Chorus (11 members) just came out with a C/D, called
Heinzische Lieder. Financed by grants from local government and donations
from the A/H Vets. Director is a Mrs. Unger. (Trying to see if they are
BURGENLAND GENEALOGICAL RECORD AVAILABILITY- AGAIN
This question keeps appearing and it isn't easy to find the complete answer
in the archives. There are two main groups of records available to
descendants of Burgenland immigrants, those available in the United States
and those available in Austria/Hungary. You should really address the first
before the second and in the order shown. It's like a series of educational
courses, the previous being a prerequisite for the understanding of the next.
Suggest you print this and keep it handy.
In the US, we have:
* Family oral records-the least accurate of all
* Family documents-the best source of family names and village of origin
* US Census records-those from 1870, 1910 & 1920 are very good
* Internet Links to the BB Lists, WGW Query Board. Austrian Phone
Directories, Ship Lists etc.
* Local church records in cities of settlement-check historical societies
* Cemetery Records-ditto
* Local city directories of city of settlement
* Naturalization records-county courthouse of county of settlement
* LDS Microfilm of Burgenland Church & Civil Records-1828-1921 (but see
* LDS Microfilm of Hungarian Census of 1825 and various tax lists
* LDS Library Holdings and Indices to gazetteers, etc.
* Village Histories in Individual's Holdings-in German
In the Burgenland and having done most or all of the above, we have:
* Village Histories (Chronik)- in German (Croat, etc.) sometimes available
from Gemeindeamt or district capitol bookshops
* Cemeteries-memorials often limited to last 3 or 4 generations
* Village War Memorials-listing dead and missing from WWI & II (name, year of
* Civil records-1896 to present-some earlier-at village Gemeindeamt (town
* Village Grundbuch-list of property owners (following the distribution of
land post 1848
* Church records- (normally 1770 to present)-at village churches
* Church records- pre 1770 -some pre 1828-at Eisenstadt RC Diocesan Archives
* Church records-ditto but AC (Lutheran)- some stored in AC Diocesan Archives
Not listed and really not a source for most US researchers are the various
holdings of Family Archives (Batthyany, Esterhazy, a few others), holdings in
Austrian/Hungarian National and State and Local Libraries and Archives. These
normally require working knowledge of German, Latin and Hungarian or
Croatian. The BB has published numerous translations of Urbars (aristocratic
inventories of land tenants), Canonical Visitations (status of parish
members) and local newspaper articles (Budapest National Library). We've also
published some translated histories. These have been found and translated by
some of our staff who have the required skills.
BURGENLAND BUNCH PHILOSOPHY EXPANDED
In a message dated some time ago, one of our members wrote something like
<< Many of the other ethnic websites are sponsored by an actual (as opposed
to ad-hoc) dues paying organization... like the Polish Genealogy Society, the
Slovenian Genealogy group, the Palatines in America or some historical
society. This allows connection to those who are not on the web...those who
can only use surface mail. Of course this creates new problems (having to
charge dues).. and new demands. Have you considered being sponsored by some
larger genealogical organization? Just something to consider... >>
My reply: I fully understand what is being said; however, the key issue here
is one of micro-genealogy as opposed to macro-genealogy. Most of the
sponsoring organizations are very broad in scope-for instance they cover the
world, or "Germania" or all of Austria, both past and present. I feel when
this occurs little real research is done because the scope is too large and
many members find they get a very small number of links or hits for the large
amount of material they must read or scan. You often find a few "experts"
writing about very "broad" issues or their own personal interests ad
infinitum. You can almost say the same thing for the BB member who is
interested in village "A" but must work through the other 400 villages we
cover, but here at least you have a better chance of finding something.
I belong to some sponsoring organizations mostly to keep abreast of what is
available in the field of genealogy. Sometimes I find something of value but
I rarely find family links or explicit Burgenland help. This is one of the
reasons why I formed the Burgenland Bunch. I wanted to separate the
Burgenland wheat from the "Germanic" chaff. I recently bought a "new" and
excellent Hungarian History by the very prestigious pedants Sugar, Hanak and
Frank. There are all of 4 references to the Burgenland or western border
region in 432 pages (no index references). In the very prestigious magazine
"Heritage Quest" (which I recommend as the best genealogical magazine
available anywhere at any price) there have been only five articles about the
Burgenland in over one hundred issues and I wrote four of them, even though
there is a very good "Germanic" column every issue. The fifth article was
about the availability of records in the entire Austro/Hungarian Empire. See
what I mean? My library is cluttered with publications which at best list one
or two references to the Burgenland.
What really turns me away from being "sponsored" by another group is that
they wouldn't add to our efforts-we'd be adding to theirs, with the majority
of their members having no interest in our material.
Besides the BB, the only other source of Burgenland material available in the
US, has been the LDS and they don't lend themselves to being a sponsoring
organization and of course they cover the world. As stated, I view the BB as
a very specialized ethnic group. Potential members must come to us with
genealogical or family history "basics" acquired elsewhere. Possible European
sponsors pose the language barrier.
One thought that Burgenland Editor Dr. Albert Schuch and I had very early was
to tightly link to (but not be sponsored by) that Austrian Burgenland
organization known as the "Burgenlandische Gemneinschaft". With help from
Klaus Gerger, Inge Schuch, Heinz Koller, Dr. Walter Dujmovits and others,
this has now been accomplished. The BG have put their surface mail newsletter
on line in a partial English language version which also includes some of our
material (see lead article Newsletter 91A). We've not been stopped by the
language barrier due to a willingness to bear the translation burden. When
you merge with others you always lose some identity, but in this case, I
don't see that happening to either organization. We both have two divergent
groups to satisfy, one whose language is German, the other English. One has
one or two generational links with the "Heimat", one has multi-generational
There would be a great deal of work necessary to open the BB up to surface
mail membership. There are accounting and record keeping ramifications as
well as the cost and effort involved in printing and mailing. A 21-24 page
newsletter would cost about 72 cents to print, a few pennies to collate and
about 50 cents to mail (double for foreign addresses). At 12 issues per year,
that's about $15/year to break even. The BG charges $15/yr for a bi-monthly
newsletter, postpaid surface mail. I don't fancy mailing to 600+ members or
maintaining such a file of mailing labels. If we gave this work to a service
bureau I feel we'd have to charge the members about $30-40/year. If we
charged for our time, this could easily triple. Members can get our BB
involvement for nothing, but in no way could they afford to hire our
services. So it is with most website sponsors.
I put in about 20 hours per week of volunteer labor, coordinating and editing
for the BB, too much of which is spent maintaining membership data. I have
reduced it considerably, but each reduction involves the loss of personal
contact and I don't wish to lose more. Personal correspondence often triggers
new and important data. My own personal family history gain is probably less
than one tenth of 1% of time involved. Still like gold, family history data
is worth prospecting and refining.
Would we have 600 members if we had charged a fee to join? I doubt it. I
don't really know how I feel about the philosophy of a "free" internet. A
"free" internet is a great idea, but people can be very demanding at
times-some feel they have a "right" to free help on the net. At least when
it's free, you can just quietly drop them if they antagonize you-fortunately
we've only had to do this with a couple of members, like the one who
said-"send me my genealogy and quit wasting my time!" Another couple sent me
a five-page letter telling me it was my "duty" to supply them with whatever
they wanted, whenever they wanted it or I was a genealogical failure. When
one volunteers time and expertise "for free" to the public at large, one
develops a thick skin and a long fuse or gives it up.
I didn't want to belabor the issue, but since many have stated an interest in
the "philosophy of direction" which drives the Burgenland Bunch, I thought
I'd share my views. Most of the other contributing editors have already
indicated to me that they share those same views.
BURGENLAND BUNCH INTERNET LINKS - ADDITIONS, REVISIONS 12/31/2000
(from Internet/URL Editor Anna Tanczos Kresh)
AUSTRIAN, AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN INTERNET LINKS
o Exulanten <http://www.rootsweb.com/~autwgw/agsfrx.htm> - Mailing list
pertaining to the Protestants that were forced out of Austria (estimated as
many as 100,000) during 16th to 18th century (Charles Wardell)
o Austria Today Online <http://www.austriatoday.at> - English language daily
newspaper; good way to see the news from the Austrian perspective; a
cooperation between the Austrian English language weekly "Austria Today" and
the Austrian daily newspaper "Wiener Zeitung"
BURGENLAND BUNCH MEMBERS' HOME PAGES
o Hardin, Nadine
Orlando, FL; the Galgoczi-Fejes and Farkas-Benko Descendents
o Leitner, Mary K.
<http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/l/e/i/Mary-K-Leitner-KS/> - Atwood, KS;
see Gene and Mary's Genealogy; many Burgerland descendents; Herndon, Rawlins
County, Kansas names and cemeteries (Mary K. Leitner)
CROATIAN INTERNET LINKS
o Croatia based HR message board <http://www.hr/webbbs/genealogy/> (Lea Buzby)
o Croatia and Bosnia maps <http://www.kakarigi.net/maps/> (Lea Buzby)
o Genealogical Research in Croatia <http://www.appleby.net/genealogy.html>
o Croatian Heritage <http://www.croatians.com/index.html> - Croatian
genealogy tips (Lea Buzby)
o Croatia genealogy newsletter
<http://www.durham.net/facts/crogen/newsltr.html> (Lea Buzby)
o Croatia History links <http://www.dalmatia.net/croatia/history/links.htm>
o Croatia online phone books
<http://imenik.hinet.hr/imenik-asp/index.asp?lang=us> (Lea Buzby)
o Croatian language help <http://www.hr/hrvatska/language/CroLang.html> (Lea
GENEALOGY RESEARCH LINKS (OTHER)
o GenForum Message Boards <http://genforum.genealogy.com/regional/countries/>
o Imperial German Army
<http://www.users.hunterlink.net.au/~maampo/militaer/armtoc.html> - online
data relating to units within the pre-1914 peacetime German Army (Phyllis
LANGUAGE AIDS - TRANSLATORS, DICTIONARIES, etc.
o Online German Lessons <http://german.about.com> - dictionaries, German
newsletter, many other links; also free online German lessons with audio
clips <http://german.about.com/cs/onlinecourses/index.htm> (Elizabeth Mandl)
MAP SITES ON THE INTERNET
o Town and City Locator <http://www.calle.com/world/> - Global gazetteer (Lea
o World Maps and Placename Index <http://www.multimap.com/index/> (Lea Buzby)
o 1910 Hungarian County Maps <http://www.familytree.hu/> - Pre-Burgenland
county/megye maps; click on Links, then on 1910 Hungarian County Maps; see
especially Vas, Moson, Sopron (Lea Buzby) [Note: these maps were formerly
listed in our links as "Hungarian Settlements" and were no longer available.
Thanks to Lea who has found an alternate site.]
URL CHANGES (revised links/descriptions)
o Translation Team <http://www.genealogienetz.de/gene/misc/translation.html>
- free translation service via email by Genealogy.net for genealogy-related
text only; limit 40 lines per email; fee charged for fax or mail (postal)
service; available languages include CZEch, DUTch, ENGlish, FREnch, GERman,
POLish [note change in language list and email address
(); URL remains the same]
o WORLD WAR I GERMAN SOLDIERS' WAR GRAVES
<http://www.volksbund.de/homepage.htm> - see article by Robert Lipprandt
published in Missing Links genealogy newsletter, Vol. 5, No. 31, 2 August
2000 at RootsWeb E-zines <http://www.rootsweb.com/~review/e-zine.html> [added
URL for Graves site]
-- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors --
(these addresses will be removed from the newsletter distribution list)
Dan Bakley; ( ); Lake Hiawatha, NJ. MAGDITS, GEOSIT,
EBNER; Punitz. Settled: Northampton, PA. New York City.
Mark Bischof; ( ), Danbury, CT. SCHMALDIENST,
STOFFER, ROSENKRANZ, SCHNECKER, ZUMANN. Rohr (Nad) , Bocksdorf (Baksafalva).
Settled Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA / Chester, PA
Germaine(Pratschner) Erbele, ( ), LaMoure, ND.
SCHERMAN(SHERMAN), SCHLEGEL, PUHR, PRATSCHNER, WURZER. Pilgersdorf, Geresdorf
area.Settled in Winsted, MN, homesteaded around Fingal, ND.
Michelle Ernst; ( ); Boyds, WA. ERNST, WAGNER,
FANDL, WEINHOFER, Limbach (Gemeinde Kukmirn).
Amanda Haft, ( ) Cherry Valley, CA. OSTOVICH
(OSTOVITZ, OSTOWITS, OSZTOVITS), Füsthegy (now Rauhriegel-Allersgraben in the
district of Oberwart.) Emigrated to Herminie, Westmoreland County, PA, USA,
prior to 1927.
Thomas Kurz; ( ); A-7023 Pöttelsdorf, Austria. KURZ,
PAUSCHENWEIN, JAKOB, LANG, Pöttelsdorf. SCHUBER, SCHANDL, FEILER, in
Walbersdorf. SCHREINER, HEFTER in Rust.
Richard Limbeck; ( ) Scio, OR.
LIMBECK, Gols. Settled Lincoln, Nebraska late 1800's, then Oregon near
Salem,Silverton, and Scio.
Margarete Nada; ( ); Shelby Twp. , Michigan. Gabriela
BENEKER from Ödenburg (Sopron, Hungary) settled in Sarasota, FL. Kathrin
KNABEL , from same place settl