From: Tony Buchner <>
Subject: [BUTLER-L] Multiple Butler Origins?
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:26:44 -0500 (CDT)
> You Requested some proof of my descent from Thomas Pincerna, b. @1180 in
> London and his relationship to Sir Hugue le Bouteillier, who accompanied Wm
> The Conqueror.
Actually, I was requesting information on the kinds of information you
used. In the past, I've chased down several names or people purported to
have accompanied William on his first crossing and been unable to find
them. Checking my notes from a few years back, I find the name of Hugue
de Bouteillier in the Battell Abbey Rolls along with some marginal notes.
I have no problem seeing Bouteillier and Pincerna as virtually
interchangeable and as being precursors to Butler. Much the same thing
happened to the "Fitzwalter Butlers" during the ""Norman Assimilation".
On the other hand, the Fitzwalter line is a fairly well-known one. The
Earls and Dukes of Ormond which descend from them, not to mention the
Chief Butlers of Ireland (which I understand is possibly the oldest
hereditary title in the world) are noted even in Encyclopedias and if I
recall correctly, are included in Burke's Peerage.
The only point I wanted to make is that on the face of it, unless the
two lines can be linked, there must be two distinct origins for the Butler
surname -- perhaps not surprising if the name is (in at least some cases)
an occupational one. If there are two parallel and unrelated lines,
perhaps there are more.
> Sorry I can't afford to comp you a book. At $70.00, incl. p&h, I am just
> breaking even. A list of libraries where you can review the book "The
> Descendants of Thomas Pincerna, Progenitor of the Butler Family can be found
> at http://members.aol.com/judge58.
$70, Yow! I've checked your website and can try inter-library loan, but
that's not always successful and at best takes quite a long time. For
others interested, the following URL worked better for me:
<http:// type="text/javascript">DisplayMail('aol.com','members');/judge58/index.html>
Regards
Tony