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Archiver > CA-SPANISH > 2011-08 > 1314632348
From: <>
Subject: Re: [CA-SPANISH] De la Guerra and Carrillo
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:39:08 -0700
References: <1313371501.398968@rootsweb.com><983CBB2D985B4086956F23EC56C8AAF7@KAE4DACD0EA75><003c01cc62e3$89646ca0$9c2d45e0$@com><C1F5C14C02A74C62817CD9B167DD2AFB@KAE4DACD0EA75><000d01cc65a2$75fe7720$61fb6560$@com>
I'm embarrassed. I don't know why I jumped on that "h.1." thing.
(Larry, I agree, I have never seen birth order mentioned in a record.)
Sheila, thank you for pointing out that Jose Antonio Bonifacio would have
been the only son old enough to have married in 1824.
I will still order the microfilm, but I think I have been straightened out
on this one.
Thank you to Sheila and Larry.
Karla
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sheila Ruiz Harrell" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [CA-SPANISH] De la Guerra and Carrillo
> Hi Karla,
> No, that isn't the letter H and the number one "h.l." This is the
> abbreviation for "hijo legitima" meaning "legitimate son".
>
> According to the work of Dorothy Gittinger Mutnick who used Brother
> Henry's
> films of the actual Santa Barbara sacramental registers, only one son
> named
> Jose Antonio Bonifacio, baptized at Monterey in 1805, married Maria
> Concepcion Ortega at Santa Barbara on 23 Nov 1824.
>
> Other children of Jose Antonio de la Guerra and Maria Antonia Carrillo
> are:
> Rita de Jesus, b. 1807
> Maria Teresa Ysidra, b. 1809
> Juan Jose Antonio Maria, b. 1813; d. 1833 single
> Maria de las Angustias Josefa Antonia Bernabea, b. 1815
> Francisco Antonio Maria de Altagracia Guillermo, b. 1817
> Pablo Andres Antonio Maria Saturnino, b. 1819
> Ana Maria de Altagracia Antonia Leonarda de Severa, b. 1821
> Jose Joaquin Francisco Maria de Altagracia, b. 1822
> Miguel Carlos Francisco Maria de alta Gracia, b. 1823
> Antonio Maria de Altagracia Francisco Remigio, b. 1825
> Maria de Alta Gracia Antonia Geronima, b. 1827
>
> The first son, Jose Antonio Bonifacio is the only one baptized at
> Monterey.
> The next four are baptized at San Diego and the last 7 are at Santa
> Barbara.
>
>
> As you can see, there are no other boys in this family who would be of an
> age to marry in 1824. Juan Jose Antonio Maria, b. 1813 died single in
> 1833.
>
> Ordering the film and seeing for yourself is the best way to "know for
> certain". Be careful when ordering the film and order the originals, not
> the
> typed version by Mr. Temple or Mrs. Northrop.
>
> Good Hunting!
> Sheila
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:]
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:30 AM
> To:
> Cc: Sheila Ruiz Harrell
> Subject: Re: [CA-SPANISH] De la Guerra and Carrillo
>
> Sheila,
>
> Thank you for checking the abstracts. I'm supposing the h.1 means that
> the
> groom was the first child/son of Don Jose Antonio de la Guerra. That
> would
> make him Jose Antonio Bonifacio.
>
> I will order the microfilm this week and report back what I find.
>
> Thank you, again.
>
> Karla
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sheila Ruiz Harrell" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [CA-SPANISH] De la Guerra and Carrillo
>
>
>> Hi,
>> The Thomas Workman Temple, II typed abstracts have the following for
>> Entry
>> #120 in the Mission Santa Barbara marriage records:
>> 120) Nov 23- El Cadete Don JOSEF ANTONIO DELA GUERRA, h.l. del
>> Capitan Don Jose Antonio dela Guerra y Noriega, y de Dona
>> Ma. Antonia Carrillo y Lugo, with MARIA CONCEPCION ORTEGA,
>> h.l. del Sargto. Don Jose Ma. Ortega y de Dona Maria Fran-
>> cisca Lopez. Wits. Don Domingo Carrillo c.c. Ma. Concep-
>> cion Pico, el Alfz. Don Josquin Maitorena casado con Dona
>> Ysabel Yorba, y otros. Ripoll
>>
>> The typed abstracts of the Presidio Register by Fr Maynard Geiger, Entry
>> #125 lists the following:
>> November 23, 1824. Presidio Church. Jose Antonio de la Guerra, son of
>> Capt.
>> De la Guerra, Cadet in Santa Barbara Comp., and Maria Antonia Carrillo,
>> married Maria Concepcion Ortega, daughter of dec. serg. Jose Maria Ortega
>> and Maria Francisca Lopez. Wits: Domingo Carrillo, husband of Concepcion
>> Pico, and Joaquin Maitoena, alf., husband of Maria Isabel. Ripoll
>>
>> To be certain you might want to look at a the microfilm of the Santa
>> Barbara
>> records at your local Family History Center, or contact the Santa Barbara
>> Mission Archive Library.
>>
>> Marie Northrop used Mr Temple's work to compile her books...and his work
>> has
>> many errors. Some of Fr Geiger's abstracts are incorrect and the
>> Huntington
>> database is yet another abstract. Until you see the copy of the original
>> image you won't know for sure.
>>
>> Good Luck!
>> Sheila
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>> [mailto:] On Behalf Of
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:38 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: [CA-SPANISH] De la Guerra and Carrillo
>>
>> This list has slowed down and I miss it.
>>
>> I'm hoping someone has investigated and can help me with a problem I'm
>> having.
>>
>> Northrop, III, page 199, says that Juan Jose Antonio de la Guerra (son of
>> Jose Antonio de la Guerra and Maria Antonia Juliana Carrilo) married
>> Maria
>> Concepcion Ortega on November 23, 1824.
>>
>> However, the Huntington Missions Records database says that it was Jose
>> Antonio Bonificio de la Guerra (brother of Jose Antonio) who married
>> Maria
>> Concepcion Ortega on that date.
>>
>> Does anyone know, for sure, which of the sons of Jose Antonio de la
>> Guerra
>> and Maria Antonia Carrillo actually married Maria Concepcion Ortega in
>> 1824?
>>
>> Karla in Bakersfield
>>
>
>
>
>
> Visit the California-Spanish website at
> http://www.sfgenealogy.com/spanish/
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