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From: April Bell <>
Subject: [CCC] Re: CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-D Digest V03 #128
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:17:28 -0800
In-Reply-To: <200304010600.h31604DE024853@lists5.rootsweb.com>


Re: letter from Mr. Sanborn.
Amen!
April in BC

At 11:00 PM 3/31/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-D Digest Volume 03 : Issue 128
>
>Today's Topics:
> #1 [CCC] France Census? ["Dave" <>]
> #2 Re: [CCC] France Census? ["Gordon A. Watts"
> <gordon_watts@te]
> #3 [CCC] Submission re Census Release ["Gordon A. Watts"
> <gordon_watts@te]
>
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>______________________________X-Message: #1
>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:49:05 -0500
>From: "Dave" <>
>To:
>Message-ID: <00ac01c2f7ad$d2fb90a0$>
>Subject: [CCC] France Census?
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Does anyone know anything about the Censuses in France? At my knowledge,
>none of the census were release to the public. I don't know thats true,
>but if so, would there be a petition going around on this issue?
>
>It's nice to know what's going on in other countries, and what problems
>those countries are facing on the census issue. I know part of my
>ancestors were still living in Europe in the 19th century, like probably
>many of your ancestors.
>
>Census is one of many good tools to trace our ancestors. It is very important.
>
>Dave
>
>______________________________X-Message: #2
>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:13:55 -0800
>From: "Gordon A. Watts" <>
>To:
>Message-ID: <018a01c2f7b1$4b147860$>
>Subject: Re: [CCC] France Census?
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hi Dave
>
>In France participation in Census is mandatory, as it is for Canada.
>They have partial release of their Census -- for specific cantons only.
>What release there is takes place after 100 years.
>
>To my knowledge there are no efforts being made to change anything
>regarding the Census of France.
>
>Happy Hunting.
>
>Gordon
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave" <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:49 AM
>Subject: [CCC] France Census?
>
>
>Does anyone know anything about the Censuses in France? At my knowledge,
>none of the census were release to the public. I don't know thats true,
>but if so, would there be a petition going around on this issue?
>
>It's nice to know what's going on in other countries, and what problems
>those countries are facing on the census issue. I know part of my
>ancestors were still living in Europe in the 19th century, like probably
>many of your ancestors.
>
>Census is one of many good tools to trace our ancestors. It is very
>important.
>
>Dave
>
>______________________________X-Message: #3
>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:25:18 -0800
>From: "Gordon A. Watts" <>
>To:
>Message-ID: <01f501c2f7bb$439f8cf0$>
>Subject: [CCC] Submission re Census Release
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Greetings All.
>
>Forwarded with permission FYI.
>
>Gordon
>=====================
>
>From: Sanborn, George
>Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:15 PM
>To: ''
>Cc: ''
>Subject: Submission re Census Release
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen:
>
> I have followed the discussion closely from the outset concerning the
>question of release of post-1901 Canadian census records. It is time
>that I bring you my thoughts on the matter of Bill S-13 as a concerned
>Canadian.
>
>For upwards of 45 years I have been actively involved in genealogical
>and historical research; I am a published author and a recognized
>scholar in both fields. I often give seminars, participate in national
>and international conferences, and pass judgement on articles and books
>to be published in both academic areas. I am currently working on a
>scholarly history of the early settlement of one of the townships in
>Prince Edward Island. I like to think that I have a balanced
>perspective of what are legitimate research materials and concerns and
>what are not, and what might more properly fall into the realm of
>restricted areas because of over-riding issues affecting the public,
>such as personal details that could compromise an individual's ability
>to carry on life with dignity and freedom of embarrassment. For
>custodians of the census records to say that concerned members of the
>public cannot see the records in their care demonstrates a
>'dog-in-the-manger' attitude that is not only disingenuous but also
>anti-intellectual. Moreover, it is wholly inappropriate for a public
>servant to make such a determination in the absence of statutory
>regulations requiring it. There seems to be an implied policy of not
>making information available to the public in the absence of laws
>stating that they have to do so, when in fact it should be the other way
>around, i.e. information should be made available in the absence of laws
>stating it may not be.
>
>I well remember how tentative Statistics Canada, or its predecessor, was
>when the 1881 census was released. There was concern that people would
>feel that their privacy was violated. They said that genealogists could
>have access to that one, but that we must not expect any additional
>releases. Of course, no one objected. After time, the 1891 census was
>released, but again the public was told not to expect any more. After
>great remonstrances, the 1901 census was released. Again, there were no
>complaints. It is time to set up a regular schedule for census release
>so that we all do not have to expend time, money, and energy every few
>years to achieve access to these valuable public records. For an
>immigrant society, these records are a principal source of information
>for both the genealogist and the historian. Denial of access is
>retrograde anti-intellectualism.
>
>Because Canada is a nation of immigrants, there is a desire and a need
>to know where we all fit into the grand scheme of things that has become
>known as the "Canadian Mosaic." This is not only personally satisfying,
>it is essential for a proper understanding of Canadian society to have
>an appreciation of the elements of which it is composed. What was
>contemporary news 100 years ago, is now history, and not very recent
>history, either. Historians have written volumes about World War II,
>the collapse of the Soviet Union, and many other momentous issues of the
>past, and the census records we are talking about pre-date all of those
>events by decades and generations!
>
> The assertion has been made by some that a 'promise' of confidentiality
>was made at the time data was gathered for the census records. Others
>have convincingly demonstrated that this was not the case, there being
>no portion of the census acts, real or supposed, that suggested or
>promised any such thing. An impartial look at the types of questions
>asked on the post-1901 census forms fails to show that there were any
>items of information that could possibly compromise an individual's
>ability to carry on life as usual, or otherwise embarrass him or her.
>All of the information would have been common knowledge among one's
>compeers at the time, and in fact neighbours often provided information
>to the census-takers when the latter encountered 'no one home.'
>
> One has to ask the question, "Why are government agencies collecting
>and preserving information about Canadian Society if no one is allowed
>to see it and use it?"
>
> The current Bill S-13 is disappointing. The Bill, unfortunately, does
>not address the needs of either the individual genealogist, or the
>academic public. There are three areas which, in my view, need
>changing:
>
> 1.) The 20-year provision before 'unfettered access' to records other
>than those pertaining to one's own family should be eliminated, so that
>free and complete access to all the records being released could occur.
>
> 2.) The 'opt-in v. opt-out' provision is a non-starter for records
>that already exist, and is a non-issue at the current time for any
>historical census records. Whether this is a policy to be instituted
>with regard to future census records is a matter for debate at some
>other time and should take place in a different theatre, not now, as it
>is merely muddying the discussion at hand.
>
> 3.) A reasonable release schedule should be set up now for the release
>of post-1901 census records. Ninety years is an unreasonably long
>period of time to have to wait. There are few of us who would not agree
>that pre-World War II events are, in fact, history. The 1911, 1921, and
>1931 census should be released as soon as possible, and plans should be
>made now for a release in the not-too-distant future of the 1941 census.
>An automatic release after seventy years would be acceptable to all
>concerned and would neither embarrass anyone nor interfere with
>anybody's ability to carry on life with dignity. For Government to 'sit
>on' valuable public records ad infinitum is unnecessary, unscholarly,
>and inappropriate.
>
> This Bill should be amended in accordance with the foregoing
>recommendations, and voted. As well, the public servants at Statistics
>Canada should be instructed to follow the law and not create their own.
>
>Thank you for your time.
>
> George F. Sanborn Jr., FASG, FSA (Scot.)
>
>P.E.I. Member, Canada Census Committee

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