CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L Archives

From: "Gordon A. Watts" <>
Subject: [CCC] Bill S-13 -- Do or Die?
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:23:09 -0800

Greetings All.

Yesterday's debate of Bill S-13 in the House of Commons has been
extracted from Hansard and the English version is now available on the
Post 1901 Census Project website at

http://www.globalgenealogy.com/Census/Hse32.htm

The French version should be online later today, or tomorrow.

I have a few comments regarding some of the recent posts to the CCC
list.

First of all, no-one should be 'amazed' at the discussion on the CCC
list. After all, the reason for the existence of the list is to promote
discussion and to allow listers to voice their concerns and ask their
questions regarding the issue of access to Post 1901 Census records.
Since the list came into being there have been many posts made, some
made in 'the heat of the moment', and others well thought out and
reasonable. For my own part I have always tried to make my posts
informative and factual. I have tried to keep emotions out of my posts.
I have tried to answer concerns expressed by others to the best of my
ability and knowledge.

A point I have tried to make clear for some time is that the current
Liberal government has a large majority in the House of Commons. The
point has been made that they have more votes than all other parties
combined. As such, IF there were to be a directed vote, and IF all
Liberal Members were to vote as directed, they have the power to pass
Bill S-13 exactly as worded, including all its conditions and
restrictions, regardless of our representations opposing them. That is
a FACT.

It has been suggested that the Liberal Government will not accept any
amendments to Bill S-13. That may or may not be true. It may have been
true at the time it was stated, but may not be true today. As it now
refers to something in the future it cannot be stated as FACT, therefore
it is SPECULATION or CONJECTURE. To accept it as FACT would mean that
we should give up and simply accept the conditions and restrictions of
S-13 without attempting to seek any amendments to it. That I will not
do.

Over the course of the past several years of our campaign, I believe
opinions I have expressed, and things I have suggested have been
influential in what others have thought and expressed through postings
to the CCC list and in personal letters and email to me. Knowing this,
when Bill S-13 was introduced I deliberately withheld stating my own
opinions regarding it. I wanted to know what others thought without
them being influenced by my opinions. By far the greatest number of
people expressing their own opinions have opposed the conditions and
restrictions that S-13 would impose. Most of those believe we would be
better off if S-13 were to die a natural death so that we could seek a
better Bill in the future.

Do I believe that after all the campaigning we have done seeking a
government Bill they would kill S-13 simply because we now say we do not
like what they have produced? In a word, NO!!

In my opinion, IF it is FACT that the Liberal Government will not accept
any amendments to S-13, the simplest way to ensure the demise of the
Bill is to convince enough Members of Parliament, and members of the
Committee that will review it, of the need for the amendments we seek.
Should we succeed in doing this, and those Committee members and MPs put
forth amendments for a vote in the House, one of three things will
happen. We will end up with a Bill closer to what genealogists and
historians seek, OR there will be sufficient amendments to cause its
defeat in either the House or the Senate, OR the government will
withdraw the Bill itself, or its support for it. (I am not sure if the
government could actually withdraw the Bill.)

Some have suggested we should accept Bill S-13 as currently worded, get
it into law to ensure the transfer of all records to the National
Archives and establish that access will be allowed automatically. They
suggest we can then seek amendments to remove conditions and
restrictions after the fact. I disagree. In my view it would be far
more difficult to attain those amendments after the passage of Bill
S-13, than to seek their inclusion before it is passed.

In my view, the surest way to to see Bill S-13 pass exactly as currently
worded, is to simply seek its death and not push for the amendments we
seek.

Should govermnent not be proroqued in the next little while, and if Bill
S-13 actually makes it to Committee, I will make a written submission
seeking amendments and give reasons why they are necessary. Should I
have the opportunity to appear before the Committee I will seek
amendments there. Should support for amendments be great enough to
cause government to withdraw the Bill, so be it.

Should S-13 die, or be defeated, could we expect another Bill to be
introduced in the future? My answer to that would be Yes, simply
because we would keep after them until it happened. Would such a Bill
be more 'reasonable'? Possibly, but such is not assured so long as we
retain the current government. Perhaps we could see a resurrection of
Senator Milne's Bill S-12, with slight modification -- a far more
satisfactory answer than S-13 will ever be.

Do not confuse our current legal action with Bill S-13. They are
separate and apart from each other. The legal action deals only with
the 1911 Census, and while we fully expect it to succeed, and hope that
it would set a precedent, that has yet to be determined. We hope that
we can see a positive verdict brought down by the court before S-13 can
be passed into law.

Happy Hunting.

Gordon

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• [CCC] Bill S-13 -- Do or Die? by "Gordon A. Watts" <>