RootsWeb: CARMARTHENSHIRE-L Re: [Cmn-L] Field House (Glanmor House, Springfields), Llanelly

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Archiver > CARMARTHENSHIRE > 2006-04 > 1144735888

From: "Pauline James" <>
Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Field House (Glanmor House, Springfields), Llanelly
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:11:28 +0200
References: <00d301c65cf1$45ecd320$d7865c54@peter>

Hi Peter I too have now looked at the old street map which names Glanmor House......it is in Neville Street I thought it was the other side........my aunt and uncles house in Railway Terrace backed onto it........long before their time of course, but how different it looked.. Glad that you have been able to solve one problem anyway.......... Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter lister" <> To: <> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:51 AM Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] Field House (Glanmor House, Springfields), Llanelly > Dear Pauline, > > Thank you for this, we have been sketching out your description - I > think the main thing that we had down incorrectly was that the church > was built ON the footprint of the old house - whereas the timings make > it look as though the church was perhaps built on what had been part of > the grounds/garden of Field/Glanmor House. > > The information that you have provided is fascinating and I am comparing > it to how I know the Paddock Street and Ralph Terrace area of my youth. > I don't think that we had ever known neither that such a house had ever > been in the area nor that our 4th G-grandfather had lived there - and it > was all just around the corner! > > The idea of access to the house over the canals is most interesting. > > Thank you, thank you. > > Best wishes, Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pauline James [mailto:] > Sent: 10 April 2006 18:59 > To: > Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] Field House (Glanmor House, Springfields), Llanelly > > Hi Peter > > We are looking through our old maps......in a survey 1877/78 looks like > we > can see Field House.......as you say next to Paddock Street backing onto > > Neville St......it does not say its a church so could be it........where > St > Peters is now there is also a large block of flats that have been > built......looks like its on the corner of Station Road and Gathen > Terrace > which is also incorporated into Glanmor Road..... > > In 1841 census it is surrounded by Box Railway, Braes, back to Box > Railway > then to Seaside........Field House is in the middle of all this..... > > Box Railway goes across Station Road, passes Paddock Street and > basically > goes down Glanmor Road then onto the copperworks........(although > Station Rd > and Paddock Street not there in 1841)........this is from a modern map > with > old markings over it from 'Coal Mining in Llanelly' > > Quote from Coal Mining in Llanelly area from 16th century to 1829... > The Wern colliery which had previously used the canal to transport is > coal > we renamed the Wern Railway Colliery, by the Copperworks company in > September 1807, implying that the railway along the Wern to the > Copperworks > constructed when the copperworks company lent money to Roderick in 1805 > has > superseded the canal as their main transportation route.......The canal > was > probably not used however, because a plan of October 1810 termed the > northern branch to the Bres piut "Old canal". The copperworks co paid > rent > for the lease of the canal and railway and a piece of water ground at > Heolfawr, but the linking of the Box tramroad to the railway at the Wern > > ensured that the Wern Canal would not be redeveloped, plans of 1814 > showing > that a partly filled canal, paralleled along its entire route by the > railway. The canal was mentioned in a proposal to sell the Wern > Colliery to > the Pembertons in 1815, but there was no suggestion that it was then in > use, > the Copperworks Comanny referring to it only in terms of the provision > of > roads over it to R J Neville's residence Field House or Glanmor > House...... > > So it was where you stated it was.......long way round > > Pauline > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "peter lister" <> > To: <> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 6:49 PM > Subject: [Cmn-L] Field House (Glanmor House, Springfields), Llanelly > > >> Hello Pauline, >> >> Thank you very much for this. >> >> Reading your notes we now imagine that perhaps the church was built of >> some of the land of the house and then the house was demolished at a >> later date. An uncle has seen an old British Steel map - but many > years >> ago - that shows the outline of the house in the area of Llanelli that >> is home to the church and the street named in association with the > house >> the field and yes - the Neville family. >> >> http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=5673 >> We had thought that we had once found a reference to the Llanelly >> Glanmor House here in the 'Cambrian' files but cannot now find it. > Will >> keep looking! >> >> In 1861 Census >> RG9/4111, folio 18, pg. 29, sch. 157, Llanelly >> >> At: Field House (Glanmor House, Springfields), Llanelly >> >> >> William Thomas, head, wid., 63, house serv. & ? of livery, b. >> Glam., Wenvoe c 1798 >> William Ll. Thomas, son,...... 14, blacksmith & ???......... b. >> Glam., Swansea c 1847 >> Sarah Jane Thomas, daur.,....11, scholar,.................. >> b. Carm., Llanelly c 1850 >> Rebecah Thomas, daur.,........ 8, scholar,.................. >> b. Carm., Llanelly c 1853 >> Christened (as Rebecca Thomas) 6 Feb 1853 >> Illtyd Thomas, son,................ 4, scholar,............. >> b. Carm., Llanelly c 1857 >> Poss Illtyd William Thomas who dies in 1891 >> John Thomas, son,................. 2,....................... >> b. Carm., Llanelly c 1859 >> Margaret Weaver, servant, wid., 32, housekeeper,.......... b. >> Pemb., Castle Martin c 1829 >> >> This is our direct line - down from William Llewellyn Thomas. We have >> rechecked and for 1851 they are at 'cottages' by the foundry' - not >> Glanmor House, apologies. However we do not have the main family of > the >> house for 1861 or 1871. For 1881 it is the John family - we guess > they >> are linked to the Copperworks and or Felinfoel Brewery. >> >> We are looking for the full entry for Glanmor House in the census for >> 1861 onwards. >> >> Our 5th great-grandfather William Thomas was still working as a > coachman >> for the John family at Glanmor House in 1881 when he was 84. >> >> William Llewellyn Thomas went on to become a builder living in > Railways >> Cottages and then building his own house that he names 'Wenvoe' at >> Pentrepoeth across from Parc Howard - we have never found him in any >> trade directories so assume he was an employee. >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Peter >> >> I grw up on >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pauline James [mailto:] >> Sent: 10 April 2006 15:44 >> To: >> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - Llanelly, >> Carmarthenshire >> >> Hi Peter >> >> I cannot establish exactly where Field/Glanmor House stood........CFHS >> have >> scanned Old Llanelly by John Innes onto a CD and there is a sketch of >> the >> Field House....... >> >> This is written in Carmarthenshire Historical Homes >> >> Glanmor or Field House, so called in 1875, demolished c1902 - skeetch > of >> >> house in 'Old Llanelly by John Innes' >> >> Also this >> WESTFA Felinfoel Llanelly >> House of the Neville family. Charles Neville a business man who came >> from >> Birmingham, was the first of his family to settle at Vauxhall, > Llanelli, >> >> where he was engaged with the Copperworks in 1804. He and his wife > were >> >> deeply religious and strong supporters of the Wesleyan denomination, > and >> >> members of the Wesleyan chapel in Llanell, where he often conducted >> services. His son Richard Janion Neville was High sheriff in 1836. > In >> 1848 >> commenced the building of the house of Westfa for the Neville's. The >> next >> member of the family to occupy it was Charles William Neville > described >> as >> owner of 517 acres in 1873. Westfa is a commodious house, of three >> floors, >> and 29 rooms in all now converted into flats...... >> >> ** >> If it was demolished in 1902ish.......St Peters church was conducting >> christenings etc from 1895........so it cannot be built on that exact >> spot.... >> >> Yes, I know that part of Llanelli well........there is also a Neville >> Street >> off Paddock Street....... >> >> Let me know exactly what info you have and who you are looking for.... >> >> Pauline >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "peter lister" <> >> To: <> >> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:47 PM >> Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - Llanelly, >> Carmarthenshire >> >> >>> Dear Pauline, >>> >>> We thought that we would look at the IGI batches for Kidwelly and > this >>> marriage for a BROWN came up - but no links but may well be an >>> interesting long-shot target at some point! >>> >>> ANNA BROWN >>> Marriages: >>> Spouse: JOHN LLOYD >>> Marriage: 20 NOV 1670 Kidwelly, Carmarthen, Wales >>> >>> Hannah Maria HENSHAW was the servant in the home of John and Sophia >>> EDWARDS (1901 census - 19 Ralph Street, Llanelly) and it was always >> said >>> that she was related in some way - but this is just not coming > through >> - >>> but thanks to you - and ,as you say, their names! - the information > is >>> coming through very quickly. >>> >>> Sophia (nee Evans) EDWARDS' family were originally from Pembrokeshire >> so >>> maybe the link is through Marian HENSHAW (b. Saundersfoot). >>> >>> Thank you very, very much - incidentally - Hannah HENSAW's parent's >>> house on Paddock Street is possibly the area where Field/Glanmor > House >>> originally stood. >>> >>> If you know this area of Llanelly you will see Glanmor Terrace, >> Paddock >>> Street and other streets with names associated with the house and >> field. >>> I believe that St. Peter's Church, Llanelli was built roughly where >>> Field/Glanmor House once stood. >>> >>> If you know any better or any more please do let me know! >>> >>> Very best wishes, Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Pauline James [mailto:] >>> Sent: 10 April 2006 14:26 >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - > Llanelly, >>> Carmarthenshire >>> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> are we on a roll?? >>> >>> marriage Llanelly St Elly parish church >>> Robert Henshaw and Jane Brown >>> >>> nicer names to search than Thomas, Davies, Williams and Jones..... >>> >>> Pauline >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "peter lister" <> >>> To: <> >>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:00 PM >>> Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - > Llanelly, >>> Carmarthenshire >>> >>> >>>> Hello Pauline, >>>> >>>> Just had a look at the IGI for Robert and Jane HENSHAW children - >>> these >>>> came up. So it seems possible that these two could be brothers > (sons >>> of >>>> Robert HENSHAW the elder b circa 1788) one the grand-father and one >>> the >>>> great-uncle for Hannah Maria HENSHAW. >>>> >>>> We did not have her father's - the younger Robert HENSHAW - father >>> prior >>>> to this - so will work from this very helpful information. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much for your time and expertise! >>>> >>>> All the best, Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. GEORGE HENSHAW - International Genealogical Index >>>> Gender: Male Christening: 23 NOV 1823 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales >>>> >>>> 2. MARY HENSHAW - International Genealogical Index >>>> Gender: Female Christening: 21 NOV 1813 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales >>>> >>>> 3. MARY HENSHAW - International Genealogical Index >>>> Gender: Female Christening: 26 AUG 1821 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales >>>> >>>> 4. WM. HENSHAW - International Genealogical Index >>>> Gender: Male Christening: 16 JUL 1815 Llanelly, Carmarthen, Wales >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Pauline James [mailto:] >>>> Sent: 10 April 2006 13:15 >>>> To: >>>> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - >> Llanelly, >>>> Carmarthenshire >>>> >>>> Hi Peter >>>> >>>> These are the entries from 1851 census Llanelly Henshaw......perhaps >>>> William >>>> is the son of Robert? Who was the father of the Robert Henshaw you >>> have >>>> >>>> 1851 census Llanelly HO107/2468 enu 2,1f sch 92 page 26 >>>> Cylwrva vach >>>> William Henshaw head marr 34 Smith born Llanelly >>>> Marian Henshaw wife marr 31 born Saundersfoot Pembs >>>> Thomas son 12 at foundry >>>> Mary dau 9 >>>> Robert son 8 >>>> Jane dau 5 >>>> Maria dau 3 >>>> Catherine dau 9 mth >>>> >>>> all children born Llanelly >>>> >>>> Upper Water Street Llanelly enu dist 1E sch 81 pg 22 >>>> Robert Henshaw head 63 shoemaker born Llanelly >>>> Jane Henshaw wife marr 60 born Kidwelly >>>> George Henshaw son un 27 Smith born Llanelly >>>> Jane Henshaw dau 23 un born Llanelly >>>> >>>> these were the only two Henshaw families in Llanelly .....born >>> Llanelly >>>> >>>> No Glanmor House mentioned in 1851.....only Glanmor cottages....... >>>> >>>> Pauline >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "peter lister" <> >>>> To: <> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:44 PM >>>> Subject: RE: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - >> Llanelly, >>>> Carmarthenshire >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Pauline, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much - Elsie kindly found her father Robert HENSHAW >> in >>>>> 1891, he was born in 1856 so would not have been on 1851. But by >>>> first >>>>> name I wonder if the Robert HENSHAW that you mention below was >>> perhaps >>>>> his father or Grandfather? >>>>> >>>>> Looking again at the dates, maybe this Robert below is Hannah >> Maria's >>>>> GGgrandfather. >>>>> >>>>> William below could be a great grandfather. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, it would be interesting to see these in case they do >>>>> cross-reference. >>>>> >>>>> May I just ask, were you able to find any of the main residents of >>>>> Glanmor House where William THOMAS was in service? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much for you time and help. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes, Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Pauline James [mailto:] >>>>> Sent: 10 April 2006 11:48 >>>>> To: >>>>> Subject: Re: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - >>> Llanelly, >>>>> Carmarthenshire >>>>> >>>>> Hi Peter >>>>> >>>>> There are two Henshaw families residing in Llanelli 1851 > census..... >>>>> >>>>> One is Robert Henshaw aged 60 shoemaker and family living in Upper >>>> Water >>>>> >>>>> Street >>>>> >>>>> the other is William Henshaw aged 34 smith and family living in >>>> Cilwrva >>>>> fach >>>>> >>>>> do you want these entries - do you think they are belonging. >>>>> >>>>> I remember a Henshaw's in Burry Port....... they ran a grocer/tuck >>>> shop >>>>> >>>>> Pauline >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "peter lister" <> >>>>> To: <> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:01 PM >>>>> Subject: [Cmn-L] 1891 look-up for Hannah Maria HENSHAW - Llanelly, >>>>> Carmarthenshire >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> Could someone please help out with an 1891 look-up for: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hannah Maria HENSHAW >>>>>> >>>>>> We have her in the 1901 census as a servant in Llanelly where she >> is >>>>>> named Hannah Manna HENSHAW. >>>>>> >>>>>> On this entry she is described as 16 years of age and born in >>>> Llanelly >>>>> - >>>>>> so her year of birth was roughly 1885. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you and in anticipation. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the best, Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>>>> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >>>>>> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>>> Carmarthenshire & South Wales Information in Photographs & >>> Information >>>>> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>>> You are requested to have up-to-date Anti-Virus software loaded on >>>> your >>>>> PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be >>>> Unsubscribed >>>>> from this mailing list >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>> You are requested to have up-to-date Anti-Virus software loaded on >>> your >>>> PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be >>> Unsubscribed >>>> from this mailing list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>>> Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research >>>> http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>> GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and > research >>> questions & Quiries. >>> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >>> Carmarthenshire Place Names Database - Looking for a farm etc you >> cannot >>> find - Contact - - Let him know the name of >> the >>> Farm House etc etc - He will search the Database >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> You are requested to have up-to-date Anti-Virus software loaded on > your >> PC, if your PC becomes infected, you will Automatically be > Unsubscribed >> from this mailing list >> >> >> >> >> ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== >> GenWeb & Genconnect pages for your genealogical web links and research > >> questions & Quiries. >> http://www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk >> >> > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > > > > > ==== CARMARTHENSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Wales Genealogy CD's for Wales research > http://www.Wales-Genealogy.co.uk > >