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From: "carpenter" <>
Subject: 1200s Flemish diaspora
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:37:16 -0400


It seems certain now that the Carpenters arrived in England from Flanders in
the very early 1200s. We were informed by the 17th Dutch historian Jean le
Carpentier that that Carpentiers of the knightly class left for England at
this time. However, the Carpenters found in the 1220s were certainly
merchants. This to my mind is a contradiction, which I wish to solve today
with the aid of the Belgian historian Dr. Hist. E. Warlop and his four
volume study, THE FLEMISH NOBILITY BEFORE 1300. Let me quote directly from
volume I:

"On September 24, 1215, Hugo (of Boves in Amienois) left Muide with a large
number of ships and many knights, among whom were Walter Mechlin, Walter II
of Zottegem, Everard Ralph and Baldwin, brothers of Arnold IV of Oudenaarde.
On September 26/27 the fleet got into a violent storm before Dunwich. Hugo
of Boves was drowned together with 36 other knights. Also a ship of Walter
II of Zottegem disappeared with passengers and crew. The ship of Walter
Bertout was driven out of its course and landed on the coast of Denmark.
Walter from fear had vowed to go to the Holy Land if he was saved. Robert
(VII) of Bethune and Baldwin of Aire, however easily reached Sandwich. Some
of these nobles made a brilliant but short career in England. Robert (VII)
of Bethune was a constable in the English army and Thierry of Zottegem was a
marshal.
When King Louis VIII of France wanted to conquer England, he called his
vassals,among whom were of course, the barons of the former Flemish
territory which had come into French hands through the treaty of
Pont-a-Vendin, and among these Barons was Daniel, lord of Bethune, elder
brother of Robert (VII), a constable in the English army.
Although similar situations were normal at that time, they were finally
disastrous for the Flemish knighthood. Some followed the French king, others
went to earn money in England, others still "sold their souls to the devil"
and even helped the Albigensians if they paid." (pp. 309-10)

Previous to these events Flemish knighthood was ruined in the Battle of
Bouvines against the French. Many of the knights were captured and
financially ruined in the demands of ransom. We are told:

"We can imagine what I disaster it must have been for the many nobiles who
already lacked money resources. After Bouvines some noble knights sought
refuge in England." (ibid., 309)

Events vacillated all through the 1200s with the townspeople and their
militias gaining increasing power and influence. Finally in 1300 the Flemish
knights, as a class, were destroyed.

"A first consequence was a serious defeat near Veurne in August, 1297. In
1300 the French army captured the big towns and the ports on the Zwin. The
Flemish knights, who were scattered throughout these fortifications, could
offer little or no resistance. The year 1300 meant the elimination of the
Flemish army and knights." (ibid., 310)


Cordially,
Bruce E. Carpenter







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