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Archiver > CASANFRA > 2004-12 > 1103652168


From: Jim Smith <>
Subject: Re: Fw: [CASANFRA] Holy Cross removals - update
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:02:51 -0800 (GMT-08:00)


Unfortunately, you can't, yet. It's going to do the documentary circuit (whatever that is) and then MAY be available for sale. Ron would know more than I would on this one.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Strapp <>
Sent: Dec 21, 2004 8:47 AM
To:
Subject: Fw: [CASANFRA] Holy Cross removals - update

Where can one get this film?

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Smith" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [CASANFRA] Holy Cross removals - update


Hi Sue,

I know exactly how you feel but trust me, you're not alone. I went to
the showing of the documentary at UCSF that Ron mentioned (met Ron & Pam
there). The situation was dismal during the removals. We were in a
depression, then a war. They did notify people via articles in the
newspaper but it's doubtful any attempts were made to find individual
families. It would have been an impossible task. Hence all the mass
burials (a few of mine are there too). The truth is, if they didn't
know their descendants first hand or didn't have a solid relationship,
nothing was done. Our own recent descendants share much of this blame
since everyone in the city knew what was going on. They had the option
even if they weren't contacted individually.

Just remember, the folks in those "mass graves" aren't there and their
remains keep good company. Holy Cross isn't to blame--it was the times
and the enormity of the task.

Cheers,
Jim

"A Second Final Rest: the History of San Francisco's Lost Cemeteries" a
film by Trina Lopez (2004, 46 min.)

"Following the Great Earthquake and Fire of 1906, San Francisco rose from
its own ashes to become one of the liveliest cities in America. How is that
it also managed to banish nearly all of its dead? 'A Second Final Rest'
exhumes the history and examines the fate of San Francisco's forgotten
graveyards."



S. F. O'Donnell wrote:

>To all that might be interested:
>
>I was somewhat confused by what Holy Cross told me and decided to contact
>them yesterday re: the removal(s) of my two nephews that died shortly after
>birth in the late 1890s. I was told they were buried with my great great
>grandmother Catherine O'Donnell (nee Donovan) from Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
>(1840-1885).
>
>I know that these two infants are buried with John T. O'Donnell at the plot
>I mentioned in prior postings as I have spent several years researching it
>being it is so complex and there as so many buried at this plot, including
>the two nephews and also another female child that was born to John T. and
>Annie J. O'Donnell (they had 5 children and 2 of the 5 lived).
>
>When I told Holy Cross about this, they at first argued this point with me,
>sticking to their "facts" that my nephews were buried with Catherine. I
>told them I knew they were buried with John T. O'Donnell and his wife, etc.
>at the plot and I gave them the plot #'s etc.
>
>After this, I asked again for more info. re: Catherine and her whereabouts
>at Holy Cross. I was then informed that Catherine is in a mass grave there
>(!!!!!).
>
>This really ruined my day to say the very least (its giving me
>nightmares!). I got pretty angry and told Holy Cross that there were
>plenty of living relatives in SF at the time of the removals. They offered
>no explanation naturally enough (how could they) as to why this mass grave
>"disposal" as I think of it as being was allowed to occur.
>
>The call ended with me saying, "Well this definitely clinches the case
>against being buried in my book" which I don't think went over so hot but
>hey, I really don't care.
>
>In the meantime, my findings that I presented to Holy Cross re: my two late
>nephews made them decide to look some more re: the removals and Catherine's
>status as being buried in a mass grave.
>
>I cannot begin to tell anyone on this list how deeply hurt I am by this.
>In fact, I told the person at Holy Cross that if any of these people were
>still alive today, I'd slap them in the face for not dealing with my great
>great grandmother properly as she came to America during the famine in
>Ireland and she surely deserved more than being dumped in a mass grave,
>unnamed, faceless, non-existent for all practical purposes.
>
>I find this so disgusting. To think our ancestors were treated in such a
>manner thanks to the greed of a bunch of real estate mongers around the
>turn of the century is loathsome and unforgivable. I can only wonder how
>long it will be before Holy Cross becomes the next "target" for new real
>estate development in the Bay Area. While it may never happen in my
>lifetime, I have no doubt that it will happen sometime in the future as the
>Catholic Church has left this possibility open is my understanding.
>
>Anyway, re: these removals - I can only say that the pain I feel inside of
>myself knowing that this was allowed to occur is one that I am certainly
>not proud of nor one that I care to necessarily discuss any further (what
>can be said?). My main comment now is this: HOW COULD THEY!?
>
>Sue O'Donnell
>
>
>One should always look for a possible alternative and provide against it.
>It is the first rule of criminal investigation. - Sherlock Holmes
>
>
>==== CASANFRA Mailing List ====
>Visit San Francisco Genealogy
>http://www.sfgenealogy.com
>
>
>
>
>

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Jim
www.HistorySmith.com

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