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Archiver > CASANFRA > 2006-12 > 1165778231


From: Doug Urbanus <>
Subject: Re: [CASANFRA] [NORCAL] ? about S.S. Cards/Navy
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 11:17:11 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <DEEKKLPEMNNMPLFOMLGGOENKDHAA.pvc2398@verizon.net>


Don't forget that while the military used serial numbers it would be highly unlikely that a person would not concurrently have a SSN. Even the military was subject to income taxes and the SSN has served as the defacto TIN (taxpayer identification number). The date of birth on the "application for a social security" SS-5 was an asserted, not proven, date. Someone who was underage quite likely would fib on the DOB. The ideas a kid would lie about his age (making himself older) so that he would seem to arrive at 62 earlier is speculative in the extreme. The first benefits were paid in 1940 and even then those folks had to prove by documents when they were born. That's why the DOB on social security benefit records should be considered the true and established DOB. The DOB derivied from the SSN record, however, in the vast majority of cases. The only time it wasn't (based on my career with SSA) was for rurally born persons who never had a birth certificate. Sometimes
their birth days and months not to mention year floated all over the place. Each time a person applied for a duplicate social security card, they were asked for the DOB,, parents' names and place of birth for ID'ing purposes. Enough of a match + the SSN itself allowed a duplicate card to be issued. But I saw different parents' names, reflecting adopting parents or stepfathers, occasionally different towns (due to uncertainty over the closest town) and DOB's -- they really didn't know. The varying DOB's were resolved into the most likely under strict rules of evidence. The earliest and ones where no incentive to fib were the most probative. School records were the gold standard. But in some cases dates were eliminated by finding out when sibling were born. You can't be older than your older sister.

Philip Van Camp <> wrote: 1. Possibly. Not to begin with. For a long time, Federal employees including
military were exempt from SS. I can remember when I was in high school that
my Dad (Capt. USMC) filled out a SS-5 to open an account. That was in the
late 1950's, but I don't recall if it was because the military was then
converting over to SS, or if he was getting a part time civilian job about
then.
2. Age. It is quite possible that on enlisting, he lied about his age.
However, 1931 > 1949 equals age 18. If 1936 is correct, it wouldn't be the
first time a kid, tall for his age, was enlisted.
3. DOB. The date he put on an SS-5 is more likely the correct one as it
would allow him to receive benefits sooner. Also by that time the Navy would
not have cared.
4. You can contact military records and get a copy of his personnel file.
If you do, be sure to specify "all records including medical and
retirement."
5. There are many associations of Navy veterans from the various ships. You
may be able to find someone who knew him in one of those associations.
Search Google for the "Chipola" and any other ships that may be listed in
his 201 file.
6. Chipola (AO-63) was launched 21 October 1944 by Bethlehem Steel Corp.,
Sparrows Point, Md.; sponsored by Mrs. P. C. Chubb; and commissioned 30
November 1944, Commander E. G. Genthner, USNR, in command. Her history is
at http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/auxil/ao63.htm
The main value of the military record may be in itemizing dependants and
where they lived.
If you do not have enough info to get a military personnel file, then if he
is buried in a National cemetery, the cemetery *may* have the info you need
to get the military file.
Phil in SoCal

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]On
Behalf Of mt view
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:41 AM
To: ;
Subject: [NORCAL] ? about S.S. Cards/Navy

I have a question, if you were in the navy from about 1949 to 1969, would
you have to have a S.S. Card?

Also in 1969, if you got out of the Navy, and then got on why give the
wrong date of birth?

Helping someone, who is looking for family members of a man who was in the
Navy, a drop a bottle off a the Chipola, in 1951, and was just found on the
beach of Nags Head, N.C.

The mans name is Earl Guy BRENKMANN, now he is in the C.A.D.I. and it
shows that he was born Nov 15, 1936, but I do not think that the U.S. Navy
in 1951, were taking 14 years old boys. Also in Ancestry, in their S.S.
Death index it shows the same date of birth, but also that he got his S.S.
Card in 1969.

But in the Calif Birth Index, I found him being born in Alameda County,
Nov 15, 1931.

so any help I would love. ;-)

George


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