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From: "Dean Martin Rees NEWMAN" <>
Subject: Re: [CHS] Re Christening
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 08:16:37 +1000
References: <003e01c1f3a8$a5699560$6401a8c0@vc.shawcable.net>


Tribute from the "Land Down Under"
(Lat 17.5s Long 146.4e)
Hello Bruce and All,
I don't think that this list has been blessed with a 'Newman homily'
before - but I thought something was necessary to clear the air.
My reply does not consider the specific doctrines of the Church of Jesus
Christ of the Latter Day Saints (LDS) or of their access to parish
records nor their interpretation or their manner of transcribing the
same.
The term "Catholic" meaning "universal" may relate to that Church which
is based in Canterbury (English)or that which is based in Rome (Roman).

BAPTISM is one of the two basic sacraments of the Christian Church; the
other being The Eucharist (also known as,'The Lords Supper', 'Holy
Communion', 'The Mass' etc.).
A sacrament being "the outward and visible sign of an inward and
spiritual grace". (There are five other lesser sacraments).
One is generally regarded as being "baptised into the Christian faith"
rather than into membership of a specific branch of that faith such as
English Catholic (Anglican), Roman Catholic, Methodist etc.
In the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches full membership comes at
'Confirmation', when the person is 'confirmed' by the Bishop as a member
of that particular branch of the Christian Church.
Baptismal God Parents are those entrusted to 'watch-over' the child's
spiritual upbringing and to ensure that he or she is brought to the
Bishop for Confirmation at the appropriate time.
CHRISTENING may be another name for baptism particularly appertaining to
the naming of the person (Christian name) for the first time at the
BAPTISMAL
ceremony. The term tends to be used more by those 'Non-Conformist'
branches of the Christian faith which historically objected to the
ceremonies of the then 'Establishment' Church.
And I'm not finished yet.........
The presumption that year of baptism and year of birth may be the same
is fraught with (genealogical) danger.
1. In the times of which we speak many districts did not have resident
clergy or priests and baptisms may well have been delayed until there
was a member of the clergy visiting the area, or until the family was
able to travel to where the priest or minister was.
2. Some families may not have been as 'committed' to 'the faith' as
others and in some of these cases baptisms may well have been delayed
until demanded by the priest or by a visiting relative of stronger
principles. Alas, it is still so!
3. Baptism as adults rather than as children was practised by some (and
still is) and so again the event would have been well removed from the
birth date.
4. Baptism of family members (and friends) was purposefully delayed and
done collectively. Or a separate "Christening" was sometimes held simply
as a 'naming' ceremony.
You could have bigger 'christening' parties this way and it also gave a
better chance for the gathering of the 'clan'.
5. A child who at birth might not have been expected to live for very
long was often baptised at the bedside by the midwife or a priest or
minister or even a parent. Should this child recover and live the child
may again be baptised in a more formal ceremony at a later date.
Points 1-5 still have application today.
Here endeth the lesson!
Be kind and hope to be right
Dean Newman, North Queensland Australia.
"As time goes by"

"The more you learn the less you know"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Heesom" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 6:16 AM
Subject: [CHS] Re Christening


> Thank you to all who have responded both on and off the list to my
Christening question .... I was also interested in the thread about
Baptisms and Christenings.
>
> Bruce Heesom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Siddall" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 2:49 AM
Subject: [Fwd: [CHS] Christening]
>
> >Hello Bruce,
>
> In my tree I have one child baptised just eleven days after birth and
yet another over 4 years after birth. So I suppose the answer is it
depended on the parents.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lesley" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [CHS] Christening


> Hi Guy's (pardon the pun),
>
> On the basis that Baptism & Christening are generally accepted to mean
the
> same thing, why would a child be done twice?
>
> Are the two locations different faiths?
>
> Lesley Baxendale
> Colwyn Bay, N Wales
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Guy Etchells [mailto:]
> > Sent: Saturday, 04 May, 2002 18:08
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [CHS] Christening
> >
> >
> > Any time between birth and death, commonly three to four days
> > after birth but later baptisms were no uncommon.
> >
> > You may wish to ponder this Bottesford, Leicstershire register
entry.
> > Baptisms register of St. Mary the Virgin, Bottesford,
Leicestershire, 1798
> >
> > "Sarah, daughter of William Ravell (by Hannah his wife) Born Sept
> > 18th, Baptised 7th Octr 1797 at Long Bennington, and
> > Christened at Bottesford, April 12th 1798."
> >
> > You can see from the dates that this was not a quick home baptism
> > in case the infant died it occurred nearly 3 weeks later,
> > then six months after this she was christened at Bottesford.
> > Cheers
> > Guy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Etchells" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [CHS] Christening


> Though Baptisms and Christenings are now generally accepted to be the
same they
> are not.
>
> Though Baptism and the Christening are generally performed during the
same
> combined service the Baptism is the cleansing and introduction to the
church the
> christening is the naming.
> Cheers
> Guy



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