CHESHIRE-L Archives

From: David Mills <>
Subject: Re: [CHS] Pemberton's Huff
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:36:21 +0000
References: <A53A544E-6D8B-4F90-B3B3-E45F9AE1827E@pembertonfamily.com><BE6AA343-1771-41A1-8CC9-CA18DD2D9920@tesco.net><23CE3D3A-099C-43FD-B695-6AD5BF5618C7@pembertonfamily.com><4DB97A23-1147-41F0-911E-4F5EB03EA964@tesco.net><60bd368f1003220754j2ff3a86dv15c74bafd8fd8b13@mail.gmail.com><B1837694-0C42-4E8B-A63D-43C2CD3DE696@tesco.net>
In-Reply-To: <B1837694-0C42-4E8B-A63D-43C2CD3DE696@tesco.net>

Nothing in the index of my edition at all.


On 22 March 2010 15:04, judy olsen <> wrote:

> Spot on for time, but not sure how far Admiralty involved - might be
> mentioned as coffee house gossip?
>
> Ah - and remember his parmesan in the garden? Bet he ate olives too.
>
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 22 Mar 2010, at 14:54, David Mills wrote:
>
> Would this be around the time that Pepys was involved in the Admiralty?
>> Off I go to my copy and to the Biography!
>>
>> David
>>
>> On 22 March 2010 13:38, judy olsen <> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jackson
>>>
>>> Here is a working hypothesis for you.
>>>
>>> The rhyme sounds authentic the way it scans and the riddle it sets. I
>>> don't have a problem with the olives but at first I was worried about
>>> 'commodities rough'. This sounded too modern. I looked it up in the
>>> big dictionary and drew a tentative conclusion (I'll skip the detail)
>>> that it referred to accommodation in the Civil War - the king in the
>>> oak tree etc.
>>>
>>> Then I realised that of course the word order was down to the poetry
>>> and reversed the words. "Rough commodities". This "may" be the clue
>>> to the whole thing.
>>>
>>> "Rough commodities" was/is a shipping term. If you google "rough
>>> commodities" charles 11" the top hit is a summary of the Navigation
>>> Acts passed by Charles 11 and then up to 1696 (so William & Mary). I
>>> don't have the time or brains at the moment to go through it in
>>> detail but go to the bottom of page 3 and you'll find reference to
>>> New England merchants shipping in rough commodities. My initial
>>> reading is that they were bringing rough commodities from America and
>>> discharging them at British ports but then re-exporting them, and
>>> somewhere along the line bringing in imports of greater value from
>>> Spain. These merchants asked for - and got - some sort of concession
>>> from the king as to the bonds they were supposed to lodge against
>>> their cargoes.
>>>
>>> So my theory is that whether or not a Pemberton was one of the
>>> merchants who actually applied to the King for the concession, the
>>> family was involved somehow in the shipping trade. The change in the
>>> navigation acts allowed them to prosper by bringing rough commodities
>>> across the atlantic (possibly salt cod) and importing luxury Spanish
>>> goods (eg olives) to Britain.
>>>
>>> The idea that the king ordered the notice on the gate is perhaps an
>>> embellishment. It may not have been on the actual gatepost ( as we
>>> think of them) either. Finally, I wonder whether the sign was in
>>> Cheshire, or placed on the family house in the US. It could be that
>>> when someone added the detail that the king ordered it, the story was
>>> then relocated to Cheshire to fit in with that. Alternatively, we
>>> could be looking at the next Pemberton down the list, the father of
>>> George bn 1660.
>>>
>>> Hope these ideas help and are not a monster red herring.
>>>
>>>
>>> Judy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>

This thread:

• [CHS] Pemberton's Huff by Jackson Pemberton <>
  • Re: [CHS] Pemberton's Huff by judy olsen <>
    • Re: [CHS] Pemberton's Huff by David Mills <>