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Archiver > CHESHIRE > 2011-08 > 1314628593


From: Vanessa Dixon <>
Subject: Re: [CHS] Where are Henry and Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH?
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:36:33 +0100 (BST)
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In-Reply-To: <6E9C3279C4E34017A575631B10496E79@christinePC>


The widowed Margaret Birchenough married Isaac Plant, on the Staffs BMD index this includes her maiden name, SUTTON. There is a marriage between a James Birchenough and Margaret Selvin Sutton, 1845 St. Peter, Prestbury. This appears to be the James and Margaret Birchenough in Macclesfield with Henry and Sarah Ann as children. Looks like we're back to square one, though there is definately only one Henry registered in Macclesfield in the time line, may be the other wasn't registered, so which Henry is the one registered, its times like this I wish we had mother's maiden name back on Cheshire BMD for Cheshire East. The one good thing is that at least we know the Henry with Margaret is not yours. I hate it when this happens, oh well back to the drawing board.
 
Vanessa

 All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone!
View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/

From: Christine Benson <>
To: Vanessa Dixon <>
Cc: Rootsweb <>
Sent: Sunday, 28 August 2011, 1:10
Subject: Re: [CHS] Where are Henry and Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH?

Hi Vanessa,

Many thanks for your time and effort.

I agree the Henry Edward in Staffs is a different Henry from mine who stays in Macclesfield and marries Elizabeth Tansey - no known children. I wonder whether the Lancashire entry could be an enumerator's error as whatever data he was given he certainly made a mess of copying it to the form. I have tried to find a Henry Edward in 1851 living with a Margaret and matching that name up to a marriage with a BIRCHENOUGH but unsuccessfully. It could still be possible though. I think that the balance of probabilities is that the Henry with James and Margaret is mine and thus the Sarah A. as well but I just wish I could have more certainty. I'll probably never get it. I think I'll send for a birth certificate of Henry Edward BIRCHENOUGH, mother Margaret, born 1847, Cheshire. If I get it, it should answer the question. If I don't get it I haven't wasted any money and either he wasn't born BIRCHENOUGH or he wasn't registered.

Thanks again for your interest, I really appreciate it.

Christine

-----Original Message----- From: Vanessa Dixon
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:11 PM
To: Christine Benson
Cc: Rootsweb
Subject: Re: [CHS] Where are Henry and Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH?

I've now found Margaret in Staffs in 1861. The Henry living with her appears to be Henry Edward who stays in Staffs and marries a Mary, in 1881 his youngest child is called Margaret. He doesn't appear to be sure where he was born in one census he says Lancashire in others Macclesfield. I can't find the birth registration of a Henry Edward Birchenough but noticed that while he was 14 his sister was 5 so I wonder if he was born before his mothers marriage and is registered under her maiden name, he may also be listed in the 1851 census under this surname as his mother may not have married until shortly before his sisters birth in 1855 (she is recorded in the 1861 census as being born in Middleton Lancs when she was born in Leek reg dist.) It makes me think that this Margaret with a son Henry E., in 1861 is a different Margaret to the one in Macclesfield with children Henry and Sarah A. in 1851

Hope this makes sense
Vanessa

All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone!
View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/

From: Christine Benson <>
To: Vanessa Dixon <>
Cc: Rootsweb <>
Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2011, 20:20
Subject: Re: [CHS] Where are Henry and Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH?

Hi Vanessa,

Many thanks for clarifying that there is only one Henry born March Q 1846.

I have the birth certs of Henry and Sarah Ann and the death cert of Hannah. They were definitely David and Hannah's children. David did have several siblings but not a James that I have found and I have tried to look at the 1841 censuses for the James (several of them) and they seem to have different parents from David who was the son of Samuel and Charlotte. On the other hand there are a lot of BIRCHENOUGH's in Macclesfield and probably a lot are related. If Henry and Sarah Ann were both staying with James and Margaret then they got her age wrong as she had turned 1 - not 9 months but it would seem probable that if that is the right Henry, it is also the right Sarah Ann.

Given that Hannah died giving birth to John Thomas and there were gaps between the known births it is not unlikely that she had problems with other births and this could be a reason the children were not with their parents.

So who was the Margaret with a 14 year old Henry born Macclesfield in 1861. Not my Henry - he was with his parents (age wrong in Ancestry). And seemingly he is not on FreeBMD, at least born Macclesfield. The only reason I want to know is confirm he was not the Henry with James and Margaret in 1851.

Any further ideas?

Thanks again,

Christine

-----Original Message----- From: Vanessa Dixon
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:19 PM
To: Christine Benson
Cc: Rootsweb
Subject: Re: [CHS] Where are Henry and Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH?

There was only one Henry Birchenough born in the March Quarter 1846, if you look at the images on Free BMD the transcribers are looking at 2 different pages, one hard to read one easy to read but they are definately the same page, so only one Henry Birchenough. I take it you have proof that Henry was the son of David, is it possible that James Birchenough was his brother and the children were staying with them and put down as son and daughter by mistake (the girl is Sarah A not Sameh). Its not unusual for this type of mistake to be made, remember the census you are looking at is a copy of the schedule not the original. This is only a snapshot of one night I've often found very young children staying with relatives on a census night.

Vanessa

All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone!
View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/

From: Christine Benson <>
To: CHESHIRE mailing list <>
Sent: Saturday, 27 August 2011, 19:04
Subject: Re: [CHS] Where are Henry and Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH?

Hi All,

Just to clarify, I already know about the trees on Ancestry, they don't
answer the question (at least those I have looked at and I don't think I
have missed any although I have not checked all belonging to the other
Henry) and neither Henry or Sarah Ann died young.

Christine

-----Original Message----- From: Christine Benson
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:40 PM
To: CHESHIRE mailing list
Subject: [CHS] Where are Henry and Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH?

Hi All,

In 1851 David (1822, Macclesfield) and Hannah(1823, Stockport) BIRCHENOUGH
were living in Waterloo street, Hurdsfield (near Macclesfield). They had 2
lodgers living with them. No one else.

They had 3 children.

Henry BIRCHENOUGH was born 7 Feb 1846 in Derby Street.
Sarah Ann BIRCHENOUGH was born 10 Jan 1850 in Waterloo Street.
John Thomas BIRCHENOUGH was presumed born 9 May 1856 and died later that
year.
Hannah died 9 May 1856 in Wellington Street in childbirth.

(If anyone finds evidence that she was alive later that was David's second
marriage to another Hannah.)

So where were Henry and Sarah Ann in 1851?

There is a one year old Sarah A., a visitor, with Elizabeth LANDERS (or
maybe SANDERS) and her son William in Brown Street, West Macclesfield.
Possible.

Looking for Henry I can only find a 5 year old who is shown as the son of
James (1825, Macclesfield) and Margaret (1826, Lees) BIRCHENOUGH. Also there
is a 9 month old Sameh A BIRCHENOUGH shown as the daughter. I suspect that
this should be Sarah A. but cannot be sure. (My Sarah A. would be 1+.)
(There is a tree on Ancestry with this family but with very few details, it
does not supply convincing evidence but there may be little evidence.)
Trying to follow this James and Margaret forward I can find no James in 1861
but quite a few potential deaths and a Margaret, widow born Macclesfield
with a 14 year old Henry E. No Sarah/Sameh A but there are possible deaths.

I tend to conclude this is another Henry from mine but it is all very
coincidental.

There are 2 Henry's born in Macclesfield on FreeBMD in the March quarter.

So where is Henry? Have I found the right Sarah Ann?

Any speculation welcomed. Anyone finding other facts deserves a prize.

Christine

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